Form 8879 Issue

[MsTabbyKats]

As you may remember (or if not here are the facts) I sold my business to someone and he was having problems from the start (lack of knowledge, lack of communications, sloppy).

I cannot ever start to tell you how bad (for example...he filed a NYS return and 2 weeks later the client got an audit notice for a Schedule C with $0 income and $17K expenses).

It has come to my attention, from multiple former clients, that he filed returns without sending them a pdf to approve.  So, in other words, the clients did not even see what was e-filed before it was e-filed.  And obviously, no 8879 was signed. Judging by the (lack of) quality of his work, I am anticipating that there will be many audits.

If people report to the IRS that the return was filed without consent, considering he is a CPA, are there sanctions against him? (And yes, he is a bona fide CPA.)

I hope you all had a good and profitable season!

Thanks for any insight (and please, no "it's not your concern anymore".  These were all good clients for many years.  I have this awful guilt that I recommended him and I hate to see them have problems.)

[Jack from Ohio]

[JJStephens]

My guess is the the IRS Office of Professional Responsibility will soon be having a chat with him. Probably ditto for the NY accountancy board. He might be able to work out some kind of probation but I cannot imagine a scenario in which he would completely avoid any sanctions.

As for your own conscience, you made a good faith decision to go with a (seemingly) reputable CPA. You had no reason to suspect he was anything other than what he was purported to be. I completely understand your loyalty to long-time clients. I'll be facing that same thing in a couple years. I just hired an attorney who will eventually be 'inheriting' my consulting gig. He's great...but I still feel compelled to look over his shoulder at everything. That said, short of re-hanging your shingle or worrying yourself into a few early wrinkles, there nothing you can do but let it go.

[Lion EA]

If you don't think your guilt will dissolve with the end of tax season, then spend some time networking, renewing your old networks.  Come up with about three names and telephone numbers you're comfortable giving out when clients call you to vent or for advice or whatever.  And, then, take a deep breathe and follow Jack's advice!  We know you did your best, plus bent over backwards to make it work.

[RitaB]

3 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

If people report to the IRS that the return was filed without consent, considering he is a CPA, are there sanctions against him?...

 I have this awful guilt that I recommended him and I hate to see them have problems.)

1)  Well, of course there are.  The law doesn't say,  "Get the form signed.  Unless you're a CPA.  If you're a CPA, do whatever you want."

2)  I'm the only professional whose work I know for sure.  I wouldn't be able to now send these people to another professional, because I don't really know anyone's else's work. Unless you have real experience with another professional,  I'd tell them to ask friends for recommendations.

 

[Gail in Virginia]

On 4/18/2016 at 0:39 PM, RitaB said:

1)  Well, of course there are.  The law doesn't say,  "Get the form signed.  Unless you're a CPA.  If you're a CPA, do whatever you want."

2)  I'm the only professional whose work I know for sure.  I wouldn't be able to now send these people to another professional, because I don't really know anyone's else's work. Unless you have real experience with another professional,  I'd tell them to ask friends for recommendations.

 

And some days, I am not too sure about me.

[Jack from Ohio]

Either let it go, or buy it back.  You may as well own it again, you have never left it.

[MsTabbyKats]

Jack- Just because someone isn't giving me money any longer doesn't mean I don't care about what happens to them.

Today I handled 2 "awful" feedbacks and the aftermath;  and, yes, "the buyer" should have done this, but neither x-client wanted to deal with him, and I felt he would have messed both returns up even more.  So I spent a few minutes of my time.  And I told each one if there are any future issues to feel free to call me.

My clients loved me because they were all treated as if my bff.  Even when they had problems not tax related I was always available to listen.  I was very touched that I received so many "I miss you" messages (granted...many were because of their dissatisfaction with "the buyer").

I love not having the responsibility, not worrying that the computer won't turn on in the morning or the printer won't print, not having to answer the phone and e-mails 24/7 etc.  Now I go to the gym almost every day, and instead of sitting in front of a screen and snacking, I lost 25 lbs.

Tax preparation was a hobby that I did in my home and a way to keep my mind active to me.  It was never about "making money".

I planned well for retirement and life is great.  But, I will always be here if any of my former clients need something that I can help with.

[Jack from Ohio]

7 hours ago, Jack from Ohio said:

Either let it go, or buy it back.  You may as well own it again, you have never left it.

 

3 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Jack- Just because someone isn't giving me money any longer doesn't mean I don't care about what happens to them.

Today I handled 2 "awful" feedbacks and the aftermath;  and, yes, "the buyer" should have done this, but neither x-client wanted to deal with him, and I felt he would have messed both returns up even more.  So I spent a few minutes of my time.  And I told each one if there are any future issues to feel free to call me.

My clients loved me because they were all treated as if my bff.  Even when they had problems not tax related I was always available to listen.  I was very touched that I received so many "I miss you" messages (granted...many were because of their dissatisfaction with "the buyer").

I love not having the responsibility, not worrying that the computer won't turn on in the morning or the printer won't print, not having to answer the phone and e-mails 24/7 etc.  Now I go to the gym almost every day, and instead of sitting in front of a screen and snacking, I lost 25 lbs.

Tax preparation was a hobby that I did in my home and a way to keep my mind active to me.  It was never about "making money".

I planned well for retirement and life is great.  But, I will always be here if any of my former clients need something that I can help with.

I stick by my previous post. Your reply verifies my observations.

[jklcpa]

 

To get get back to the reason for the original post which was:

On 4/18/2016 at 8:27 AM, MsTabbyKats said:

...sold my business...problems from the start...filed returns without sending them a pdf to approve...clients did not even see what was e-filed...no 8879 was signed....

If people report to the IRS..., considering he is a CPA, are there sanctions against him?

Thanks for any insight (and please, no "it's not your concern anymore".

 

MsTabbyKats, there could be sanctions if clients having firsthand knowledge report him to the IRS or state board of accountancy that he has filed returns before receiving the signed authorizations back from them, or his work could be of such poor quality that the IRS would pick up on that if enough of his clients' returns come up on audit, receive notices, or there is a pattern identified as abusive or somehow otherwise problematic.  If you don't have actual knowledge of what transpired, you should leave it to those that do and that may have been harmed by his actions.

The IRS would have no way of knowing that the 8879s were not signed before the returns were filed unless clients turn him in since those aren't filed with any agency. Concerning the quality of his work, again, unless it is extremely bad, given the shortage of IRS personnel and decrease in audits, and considering that many really horrible mistakes sail under the radar, unfortunately I highly doubt that anything will come of this.

[RitaB]

12 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Just because someone isn't giving me money any longer doesn't mean I don't care about what happens to them...

Now I go to the gym almost every day, and instead of sitting in front of a screen and snacking, I lost 25 lbs..

1)  There are two kinds of people.  I am with you 100% on this.  I would rather lose money than not help when I can.

2)  If I name my fridge "Jim," will it count as going to the gym?

[RitaB]

15 hours ago, Gail in Virginia said:

And some days, I am not too sure about me.

But do you ever wake up at 4:00 wondering, "OMG, did I do that right?" and you go to the office and check the file, and yes, you did it perfectly, and you smile all day cause you're pretty darn good and you got this? That's a great day.

[Lion EA]

Get this guy off the streets.  Pass out to the complaining clients:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f14157.pdf

[michaelmars]

I appreciate your attempt to help and I would do the same but what about next year, its hard to help unless you have software available.  Maybe take back just enough clients to cover your costs for the next few years.

[MDCPA]

1 hour ago, michaelmars said:

Maybe take back just enough clients to cover your costs for the next few years.

 

16 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Tax preparation was a hobby that I did in my home and a way to keep my mind active to me.  It was never about "making money".

This is exactly where I'm at in my career - not about the money - wanting to do enough to keep my mind active, stay up on individual tax laws and cover the software and research costs.  Full-time work as a company controller.

[MsTabbyKats]

Let me make this clear.....I do not want to do tax returns ever again, except for me, my husband and my son.

I love having no obligations other than to indulge myself.

 

That being said, I just got another complaint from another client.  "The buyer" did not gve him the $300 CT car registration credit.  I told "the buyer" to amend it.  This was after it took weeks for him to do the return after he got the W-2.

Last night I got an earful from another client who went to his office.....and the chaos that ensued on 4/15.  The guy owed about $1000.  "The buyer" gave him paper returns to mail in instead of e-filing, but didn't tell him that he needed to send them in.

Seriously....he really shouldn't be doing tax returns.  There is definitely some "brain issue".....probably early dementia. 

 

 

[MsTabbyKats]

2 hours ago, Lion EA said:

Get this guy off the streets.  Pass out to the complaining clients:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f14157.pdf

Thank you....I didn't know this existed.

 

[Jack from Ohio]

10 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Thank you....I didn't know this existed.

 

It is called the "Tattle-Tale" form.

[Lion EA]

I don't think I've ever recommended that form before, because we all make mistakes.  But, your buyer is the perfect use!

[MsTabbyKats]

An e-mail I just got from another unhappy client:

Hello

I am sorry to bother you once more but I really a copy of the file(s) with my tax returns.  

Hope everything was OK (the Feds still have no taken their money) but I need them as a proof that me and my wife live together (for the immigration services)

Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice weekend:

 

It looks like the buyer never sent him a PDF (another one filed without the client approving) and that direct debit wasn't included.

Yes we all make mistakes and we all don't know every states rules....but "the buyer" is beyond incompetant. I may recommend that form to this client as these mistakes that could affect his wife's immigration status.

[jklcpa]

Are these clients absolutely sure that this preparer didn't file extensions with zero payments?  Perhaps these people should ask for the Form 9325, or ask if he got them extensions.

[MsTabbyKats]

21 minutes ago, jklcpa said:

Are these clients absolutely sure that this preparer didn't file extensions with zero payments?  Perhaps these people should ask for the Form 9325, or ask if he got them extensions.

There's a patern here...and this client got in touch with the buyer over a month ago.  It's one of those "one W-2" returns that would take about 10 minutes to do.  No need for an extension.....

These clients....at least all the ones I've posted about today.....all have PhDs in science.  The CT guy is a professor at Yale.  This one does research at Mt Sinai Medical Center here.  If they say "it's so"....."it's so".

[jklcpa]

Thanks for clarifying. That's awful.

[MsTabbyKats]

I promise, this is the last one I will post.  And I think even Jack in Ohio will understand why I can't "let go" now. I woke up to this e-mail; client is an MD, surgical resident....so again, not a dumb person.

Read it slowly, thoroughly....and to the end.

Firstly, I am not an accountant. You charged me $200 to file my 2015 return and amend my 2014 return to reflect my married filing status. In fact, I paid you the full amount by credit card prior to you even completing the 2014 amendment because you gave me your "word". The mistake on my 2015 return should never have happened in the first place. I gave you all the information as part of full disclosure (the Onyx 1099 came on a single sheet of paper which I scanned and sent you). Rather than asking me how I made so much money in such a short amount of time and which hospital I work at, perhaps you should have asked me why there are two 1099's from Onyx? I did review the return (after requesting the pdf) to the best of my ability. I expected that you had done all of the number crunching correctly. Further, I had to request you to send me the final submitted tax return (which you sent me a day later - Bonnie always sent me the final version prior to receiving payment by check, which I always mailed to her, which I have done for several years). In addition, you call me, accuse me unnecessarily, mock me, call me a "pain in the ass" and then hang up the phone...a little unprofessional? Especially after I trusted you to file my 2015 return (correctly, with all the information you had at hand) and make the amendment to my 2014 return to reflect married joint filing status, and paid you full in advance for your services. That is all I expected.
 

Once again, I'm not a CPA. I would appreciate it if you stick to your "word" and make the appropriate changes to my 2015 return & amendment to my 2014 return. Also, if you could please send me final copies of both the 2014 & 2015 returns for my records, i would appreciate it. And I promise, like you requested, you will not be hearing from me again.
 

Thank you,

 

[Yardley CPA]

The fact that this concerns and upsets you speaks to the type of person and professional you are.  You sold your business in good faith to someone you thought was worthy of your clients.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem it turned out that way.  There is nothing you can do about that now besides possibly apologizing to those former clients who contact you.  You are no longer their preparer and you've stated you do not wish to prepare returns in the future.  Others in this string have stated possibly referring those former clients who contact you to another preparer you know of.  Chances are, even then, they may not receive the same service you provided to your clients when you prepared their returns and some may still be disgruntled. 

At this point, file form 14157 if you choose to.  Make the IRS aware of what you know and then move on and enjoy your well deserved retirement.  There's nothing more you can do. Best of luck to you and your family but certainly stay part of this forum as you have much to offer!