BHoffman Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 This year I asked my chronically late filers to have their paperwork to me by Aug. 31st. Amazingly, most of them have complied. I have two clients who just seem never to be able to get it together until October and then it's a real struggle for me. I just fired one of them and am waiting for a return call from the other and I want them to go elsewhere too. Do you ever fire clients who habitually wait until the very last minute? There is no fee high enough to compensate for the grinding frustration. Or, maybe I'm just getting crankier in my old age.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret CPA in OH Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Yes, I have fired clients, well, only two, who were like this. As you noted, it isn't worth it to you or me to care more about their returns than they do. Recently I have been going on dive trips in the fall so have a much earlier deadline which has been honored. And I build in plenty of time for me to complete the work. About a month out I remind those stragglers that I will be out of the country so they should start looking around for someone else. This year, no stragglers! Well, there are the new clients, one now in Berlin never having filed but we are almost caught up from 2011 and another new one who has to wait until Oct. 6 to meet the physical presence test. But her returns are actually finished. Cranky is okay! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medlin Software, Dennis Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 The value of peace of mind (yours) is something no customer would be willing to pay. It is an easy thing to come to realize, sometimes a bit tougher to enforce. I do not see this as getting crankier (at any age), just wiser than most. Of course, wisdom usually comes with age and experience... or in some cases, by accepting the advice of those with more of either. I always internally cringe when someone says "the customer is always right". In reality, a particular customer's opinion/goal is not always mine. The most recent is a customer who insists they want to process a client payroll which I can show (via IRS rulings) is not proper. My customer keeps saying they have differing rulings (which have yet to be shared with me). I have to look at my customers as a whole, and not make it any easier to do something I know is not proper, but remain ready and willing to review the opposing IRS rulings, should there actually be any shared. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytax Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 As we are responsible people for ourselves; our clients need to be responsible for themselves too. We may lose dollars but doing what is right and proper pays and is actually easier than doing wrong. You NEVER help someone by enabling them to do or continue to do something that ultimately can hurt them. Eventually even procrastination hurts those who do not learn to be timely --- your peace of mind is more important! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I usually don't fire these types of clients - I let them fire themselves. I tell them when they bring their stuff in very late that I am under no compulsion to meet the deadline. If the return goes delinquent, it is no fault of mine. If they choose to take their work elsewhere, they go with my blessing. My drop dead date for drop offs for the April deadline is the beginning of the third week in March. Because I do not want to work those kind of hours in October, my drop dead date for drop offs for the October deadline is September 1st. In my way of thinking, it is all about my running the business instead of the business running me. I find I am much happier when this the case. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberts Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I used to say their fee made them worth the pain - I've changed my mind. Fired my 4 worst clients in the past 12 months - my level of happiness has gone up considerably. I don't need questions at 9pm on Saturday night that are deemed emergencies, I don't need someone informing me I'm untrustworthy for something that wasn't my fault, I don't need someone who wants me to argue they shouldn't have to pay estimated tax payments. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I have fired clients. Generally NOT for chronic lateness. For those, I simply tell them that they WILL NOT have their returns ready by the deadline and will have to pay penalties for late filing. Then I do them as I can. And if the holiday season gets busy and I don't actually get to the return until the first weeks of January, that's fine by me. However, I *do* charge a late filing fee which is hefty. Had one guy (whom I fired for other reasons) who never got me 1099-MISC information on time. Ever. Eventually I was charging him $20 per form (my standard) and $60 per form late fee: $80 each. He just paid my bill... don't even know if he ever saw the separate line item late charge. As Margaret noted, and as I have to re-learn every couple of years myself, we simply can not allow ourselves to care more than the clients care. That way lies madness. (And anger; a different kind of mad-ness.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I am working on one of those chronically derelict late filers now - and what a nightmare. I NEVER charge this guy enough for this return. It is my own. I am thinking about farming it out next year. 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 We're waiting for a K-1 from my mother-in-law's estate - were supposed to have it weeks ago. Then I can finish our returns. Ugh. It has been an absolute albatross this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHoffman Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 This has been a very stressful year. Tax season was awful. Fighting with Hubby to the point of tears and door slamming. I hate it when he cries. Then, our beloved dog Molly passed away at 14 years old from kidney failure. She was our last pet. I do not want any more pets. After she died, Hubby said let's go to La Jolla CA and just stay there until we feel better. It was a good idea. My stress level has gone down so much that I feel better than I have in years. There isn't any elderly pet to medicate and feed and pamper and worry about. Hubby and I can finally travel together, worry-free, and stay away as long as we like. I feel so much better that I'm looking for other ways to relieve stress and I'm looking at that every day. Dumping clients who are a continuing source of teeth grinding stress has been cathartic. I'd rather be poorer and happier than have that hard money that comes from dealing with them. Thanks for responding. I was feeling inadequate and weak for not being able to deal with these late returns. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I don't fire people for being late, but I don't pull out all the stops to do their returns on time either. I do understand every single opinion in this thread. I feel you I really do. I'm sending another reminder to the apparently very busy young lady handling her deceased father's final 1040. She has very nice business cards, but I think that's about the extent of her business acumen. I really thought the world of her daddy and recall what a sweet gentleman he was as I pound out this email with the help of the new equipment Abby introduced to us in "this could come in handy for certain clients". My goal is to scare the crap out of her, but if she doesn't take swift action, it's her inheritance she's wasting. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 This industry in and of itself is stress just by definition. Finding ways to relieve that stress is paramount. Just as importantly is removing additional stress from it. Admittedly, I did not get that for the first 20 plus years I was in it. By the time it finally dawned on me, the doctor was implanting a piece of titanium in my chest so my heart would keep going thump, thump, thump. Barb, I applaud you. But I will be quick to point out that pets are a great stress reliever - their end of life issues notwithstanding. I get it. I buried my best friend, a German Shepherd named Flower, eons ago and said I would never put myself in that position again. It took me 25 years before my wife felt comfortable bringing Maggie (another German Shepherd) home as a pup. In hind sight, I deprived myself of shear joy for most of those 25 years. Oh, we have had dogs all along, but I had little attachments to them like I had with Flower or have with Maggie. But enough of that. As to stress relievers, this forum has to be right at the top. Rita, don't be too hard on that client. The grief associated with losing a parent causes the best of us to put off things that we don't want to deal with. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 6 hours ago, rfassett said: Rita, don't be too hard on that client. The grief associated with losing a parent causes the best of us to put off things that we don't want to deal with. You are absolutely correct and I apologize for my tone there. She's actually a step-daughter and dropped off what she thought was everything in February and in a very chipper mood. On March 1, I scanned and emailed four forms from 2015 that I'm about 100% sure are missing in action for 2016. Circled the phone numbers of issuers. Went thru the whole thing again getting the extension and making a stab at the payment to make. Today I simply forwarded the March 1 email to her and explained FTF penalty and October 15. She didn't hear my fist pounding the "Enter" key. I ordered the discreet model for chickens. (DMC) I'm 100% sure the holdup is not grief, but I didn't explain all that and I know better, so fair enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILLMAS Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) I think we are just as guilty as them, a simple "sorry I'm late" usually solves the problem and we bite your tongue and do everything to "help" our client avoid penalties, don't you agree? Rant: FYI our clients will never respect us, never if we don't make them become accountable, some clients are okay with paying us a late fee, they don't have problem paying the IRS a late fee, however everything becomes okay and they are ready come in late next year. Sometimes letting go of clients is what the doctor ordered. Rant over! Edited September 7, 2017 by ILLMAS grammar 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 28 minutes ago, ILLMAS said: I think we are just as guilty as them, a simple "sorry I'm late" usually solves the problem and we bite your tongue and do everything to "help" our client avoid penalties, don't you agree? Nope - not in this office - not anymore. Yes there was a time that I did exactly as you describe - but not now and not evermore. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHoffman Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Ugh. I just sent the kiss of death resignation email to the client. She texted me and I don't want to talk to her. I'm very busy working on a peer review, have another client that I do need to chase around and don't want to fire, and a bunch of other stuff. And, I'm tired and feel like crying. boo hoo 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHoffman Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Text from client: "This is really harsh & leaving us in huge limbo" The response I really want to send: "Better you than me" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILLMAS Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 37 minutes ago, BHoffman said: Text from client: "This is really harsh & leaving us in huge limbo" The response I really want to send: "Better you than me" Send something like this better: "Thank you for the feedback, but this decision is final. " Like most people we see No as a maybe, using a script like this closes the door for a Yes. This script sets clear expectations and finalizes the relationship in a professional but firm manner. I’ve only had to use a form of this script a handful of times but with particularly “bad” clients it can be justified. ^^^ Source: http://www.nicholasreese.com/problem-client-scripts/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHoffman Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 I like the scripts! Is 09/07 very late to find another accountant? You can't swing a cat in Phoenix without hitting one. I feel pretty good about getting off the hook here. I'm also ashamed to say that I feel sort of good that now she's the one on the hook. A little guilty, but overall pretty good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILLMAS Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Here are another two quotes I sometimes read out loud: I have more choices, including no. I will not apologize for saying no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Another option is to refuse to respond at all. I fired a chronically late problem client *after* sending him a "drop-dead date" by which I needed to have ALL materials from him. I gave him several weeks' advance notice, and waited a week *after* the date to hear from him. Then I sent the "you're fired" letter and *instantly* got a scathing, nasty, "how can you leave me in the lurch like this" response. I did want to respond - with a Rita-hug. After conferring with my assistant, I decided to wait a week and see if I still wanted to respond. Within that week, I got a call from another accounting firm, wanting to transfer records. I made *them* get the Section 7216 disclosure. Then I sent everything they requested, with an admonition to them to get paid first and to be stone-cold bastards about deadlines with this guy. My mistake from the get-go was to be lenient. But then, he was a hand-me-down client from a retiring colleague who had told me he was always a little late but always came through. The client took that leniency and over more than a decade turned into a real problem. The new folks were very grateful for the advice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 7:21 PM, BHoffman said: I like the scripts! Is 09/07 very late to find another accountant? You can't swing a cat in Phoenix without hitting one. I feel pretty good about getting off the hook here. I'm also ashamed to say that I feel sort of good that now she's the one on the hook. A little guilty, but overall pretty good. Guilt - that's the difference between being a caring person and a feeling person. As in. "I really don't care. Sometimes I feel bad about not caring, but still I really don't care." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 6:21 PM, BHoffman said: ...Is 09/07 very late to find another accountant? You can't swing a cat in Phoenix without hitting one. I feel pretty good about getting off the hook here. I'm also ashamed to say that I feel sort of good that now she's the one on the hook. A little guilty, but overall pretty good. I don't think so. This season I turned one away, they left my office at eleven, I went to lunch at 11:45 and their car was parked in front of Block's. So, no problem for them. Too bad though; they weren't a PIA and (later) took two relatives with them. Damn those confounded ethics anyway; all l had to do was agree that since the installment buyers of their spare house "just make the bank payment" any fool could see there was no gain. You're right about ditching a terrible client though. I priced one out of the office over ten years ago and still get a touch of euphoria every time I see that crummy #%*&^@. Life is soooo much better........ If I didn't dislike his successor preparer so much I'd feel really bad about it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 On 9/9/2017 at 5:52 PM, BLACK BART said: ...If I didn't dislike his successor preparer so much I'd feel really bad about it. Let me amend that statement a bit; John's is more accurate. On 9/9/2017 at 5:46 PM, JohnH said: ...As in. "I really don't care. Sometimes I feel bad about not caring, but still I really don't care." 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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