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Remember, a set of "books and records" does not mean they have to have an accounting program. An excel spreadsheet is books and records. The only thing I would advise if they are not doing it is to have a separate bank account for the rental activity. And reconciling it every month adda hours to the time spent on the rental activity. Tom Modesto, CA

1981 was my first year working in public accounting and have been here ever since. My first job in the profession was a temporary position through my college's co-op program and counted as course work. I worked the same number of O/T hours as everyone else in the firm and took 2 night courses that semester too to finish up my degree.

Especially if they aren't very good at it!

Christian, the logging requirements are for the Safe Harbor only. Take a webinar or more on rentals. Soon. This could be a great niche for you. Just like keeping a mileage log, we have to educate our clients into keeping "books" and tracking time. Some tradesmen are getting onboard with listing their hours on their invoices; they've been doing it all along when billing hourly labor charges. Otherwise, train your client to ask and have vendor write it in on the invoice. Or, make his own note "2.5 hours per Joe via tel" on the invoice. Keeping all his vendor receipts is a great start. Have him hand out W-9s (mail them now for 2020 services already provided) and prepare the Forms 1099-MISC for him in January. I'm sure he knows his rental income and has the deposits to prove it and his notes in whatever form to track who's late.Give him a green ledger sheet for each rental for each year for tracking income and expenses.

Did you "zoom" into the meeting since you could not attend in person?

First year doing taxes, 1979 tax season for 1978 tax year. Firm was top 10, just outside big 8. We used the IRS provided paper forms that were so flimsy, you ended up erasing holes in the paper, and had to use white tape to fill the holes. Reviewers used blue lead for tick marks because blue doesn't show on a photocopy. And, because I was the new guy, I got the 20 lbs adding machine. Smoking was common in the office. There was a blizzard that tax year. I lived 35 miles west of the office, and when I woke up, my tires were already buried, so I called and said I would not be in. It was a Monday and they always had a one hour staff meeting to start the week... in a windowless conference room. It was only flurries when the meeting started but when the meeting ended, there was so much snow, some people got stuck going home.

My mom bought the H&R Block franchise here in town in 1969, and I worked for her starting out just copying returns and filing. By the early 70's I was doing returns by pencil and paper, with a desk top adding machine that you could only multiply by holding down the plus bar for the correct number of times, and adding zeroes as the decimal place moved. When I graduated high school, I thought that I would never ever do another tax return unless it was my own. ha ha,

I started with pencil also. I sure don't miss that huge nub/dent I got on my pressure finger from drawing numbers all day long. Or that darn clicking sound of my abacus. I was surprised when I went through my blank forms today. I found this....

My family used to make the rounds of all the relatives in winter/spring. Saturday with X, Sunday with Y, kids would play, moms would yak - and my dad and the other dad would get the taxes done. Dad would bring along the 30-pound solid iron adding machine - probably a Burroughs Portable, with the side-handle. I remember the adding machines where multiplication was sequential adding, and having to keep careful count! Also remember doing returns by hand when I first started out. I have always taught assistants on paper; as far as I'm concerned, they are not qualified to touch the software until they understand how the information flows from schedule to form.

I have spent the last 4 weeks babysitting 2 PPP Loan Applications thru 2 FinTech Companies for my 2nd largest client. Finally today,one of the loans finalized and the funds were deposited in my client's checking account today. What a frustrating experience, hours of dealing with poorly designed websites, days of waiting with no feedback. Too many phone calls, talking to people who only knew the basics of what they were trying to do. All because the large regional bank, where my client has been a customer for over 20 years gave my client no help, no encouragement, and didn't even return phone calls. I did my first application for my largest client with a small local bank back on April 2nd, it took me an hour at most, a piece of cake. The documentation requirements for these last two applications increased exponentially. Now all I have to do is fill out the forgiveness applications, which appears to be way more challenging! I really need a vacation !

Health Insurance, Dental Insurance, Long Term care Insurance & all Medicare premiums. (Pub 535 )

You really don't want to know how long we have tortured ourselves?!?! Blank IRS forms, Parsons with pencil and carbon paper, Saber, ATX, Drake. Couple of others I can't remember. As far as the number of years, started in 1982.

I started out using pen and ink. The first tax program was out of Maine I think. It cost $75 per year and worked quite well. How sweet it was !

Could you translate this down to 1996 techie knowledge? Tom Modesto, CA

The name Best doesn't ring any bells, but in the early 90's I was using some "off the shelf" program, don't even remember the name. One year they added business returns, and if you shut a business return down improperly, you had access to a "return manager" (you actually had to force access to it). After a little "snooping", I discovered it was ATX. 600 bucks for MAX, and I NEVER had to worry about ANY form ever again. Stayed with ATX, until Drake in '16 or '17.

For those that may not have seen this yet, both the Senate and House each have a bill in the works that would modify the 8-week term in which PPP must be used, the forgiveness, and possibly an extending the number of months for repayment of amount not forgiven. Article from yesterday's Journal of Accountancy: https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2020/may/house-bill-relaxes-ppp-loan-forgiveness-requirements.html?utm_source=mnl:cpald&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=29May2020

If they make some of these changes, are they going to be retroactive, because my largest client's 8 week window ends on June 10th. Conversely, my second largest client just received their funds today and under current law, their window begins today and ends on June 30th. It's impossible to plan when the goalposts keep moving, not one, not twice, not three times, I'm sure I have lost count. This is the most insanity I have ever seen in my 44 years of accountancy !

I would have preferred not to be involved in loan applications, except for providing numbers if needed. However, my experience has been similar to yours. A large regional bank had a web portal everything had to be filed through, and no ability to actually talk to a person to see if they had everything they needed or where the process was at, or how long to expect it to take. Another few clients had small local banks, were able to navigate the process on their own, at least mostly, and had their money within a week. The larger bank took almost a month. And one of the largest law firms in the area was doing commercials that told people to contact their accountant about getting a loan to help them through these difficult times. I wanted to call them and tell them I was not a banker.

I have a client who has 2 commercial rentals and 6 residential rentals. For the past 2 years I have used the "Safe Harbor Rules" for the residential rentals. The "Safe Harbor Rules" are restrictive since you cannot group commercial rental and residential rentals together. Also this client meets the 250 hours for the residential rentals, but not for the commercial rentals which is annoying because the majority of the profits come from the 2 commercial rentals. I am going to sit down with this client to review whether the "Trade or Business" approach would be a better way to go instead continuing to use the "Safe Harbor Rules". Frankly, I am not seriously concerned about the risk of audit.

Interesting this looks to have been expanded since the last time I checked which was a long time ago. It's a seldom used benefit as not many of my folks post a profit .

There are two safe harbors; the one being discussed and the De Minimus Safe Harbor, Sec 1-263a -1(f) election which allows a $2500 item that would normally be capitalized to be expensed. As long as the object of the rental is to make a profit, it is considered a business.

Ah, JRS, you beat me by 4 years but I was 46 then and had been a molecular biologist so second career for me. The Parsons I used was already on the compute (I still have the cd, think its worth anything?) , I never had to use carbon paper. Sorry for you, friend!

I should have stated Medicare insurance which as you know is shown on the annual Social Security SSA-1099. I deduct this every year myself. This client has multiple other health related policies. Drug, dental, vision and a policy through another carrier. My reading of the law indicates only primary health insurance is deductible but I have known other tax folks who disagree and deduct them in toto on line 16.

With respect to rentals being a trade or business there is no one specific cite. There are some court cases, probably one of the most important going back to the early 1940s. You need to do some online searches, there are a number of in depth analyses by various tax experts.

So people don't think we are boring, should we start a new post to see how many years each has been doing taxes and what equipment/software they have used in the past?

It is something which requires active participation in setup and maintenance. You can port your public number to a virtual service, then the number, via the setup in the virtual service, can be set to forward to a physical phone (such as a cell), just made announcement only, voice mail transcribed to email, etc. The VOIP type service "hosts" your public number, and offers setup options as to what to do when someone calls, texts, and possibly faxes your public number(s). The advantage of the VOIP type service is not having to pay for a landline (since we all have cell phones). (There is a disadvantage of no landline during a disaster scenario, as cell towers get overwhelmed, will run out of backup power - if they even have backup power.) Via the VOIP service, I can have whatever physical number(s) I want ring, set hours, and have voicemails transcribed and sent to me via email (including a sound file I can listen to if the transcription was not great). Saving the transcription and sound file is good "evidence" should you get into a "I did (or did not) say that" scenario. Google voice has the ability to record live calls, and IIRC, provides a method of notification so even a two party consent (for recording) state like CA is covered. -- For most, it really is not terribly complicated. Mine is complicated because I often stay at places where I have to use a secondary or tertiary cell carrier, or even a sat phone or just wifi phone. Rather than having to remember to setup and return to normal when I travel, I have a long set of setup in place all the time, forwarding down the "line" until one of my physical phone lines ring or receives a message. So for most, some sort of efax (if needed) setup, plus google voice for voice, text, and answering machine, will be more than adequate

For a free service, with good features, "wash" your calls through a google voice number. In other words, forward your calls to GV and let GV be the answering machine. If you want to answer as well, GV can forward to another number, such as a cell. You could even (I think) port your business number to GV, and just forward to whatever cell or LL number you wish (presuming you want to answer some of the time). GV handles texts in and out as well. I also use VOIPO, as a virtual service, since they handle incoming and outgoing fax as well. While VOIPO offers an actual VOIPO physical phone, I don't use it, as I prefer forwarding. My setups are fairly complicated, as I travel (so I use different cell carriers depending on where I am at). I also like to have an easy to swap option, rather than having a failure cause me to have to scramble. I actually have a check list of steps showing how I bounce things around, with notes on how to change if something goes awry. Public facing fax, is a virtual number (VOIPO), which creates a pdf emailed to me. I can send outgoing fax messages by attaching PDF and using a special email address format (receiving fax number @ a certain domain). $36 per year IIRC. Public facing voice, virtual number using VOIPO. $185 every two years IIRC. Has voicemail transcription (attaches a sound file to an email). Many other options. The one flaw is their ring silence option is in beta. Accepts text messages too, in a similar manner, and allows replying to incoming text messages directly (email send to the text number). I can also forward my public number to another number, or use simultaneous ring. Both GV and VOIPO have ways to have outgoing calls use your public number for caller ID, such as when forwarding to and calling back from a cell or other number you do not want the public to see. If I did not need the fax ability, I would probably just use GV as my "hub". I am likely porting the voice number to GV when my VIOP voice subscription runs out, and just keeping VOIPO for fax.

Our VOIP provider gives us an email with voice to print copy of all voice mails. I can also download any voicemails I think. I can also record any phone calls I want (my state only requires one side to know a call is being recorded).

Thank you for making realize how fortunate I am that my practice is primarily small business write up, payroll and business entity tax preparation.. I just counted and I only have 6 non business 1040s that I do and 3 of those used to be business returns. Truly, I have not had a single one of these calls. Now I feel like I am sitting underneath a Double Rainbow !

Circled back with the attorney and a Trust Return is in fact the way to go. Thanks to all who chimed in.

These days, with the way many people think, having a printable trail is not an option. Voicemail transcription to email is handy. Not always accurate, but reasonable, especially since the sound file is usually attached.

I too am thankful for the new 15 July deadline, because my tax preparation is no where near what it would be by a normal 15 April. I'm still going to have lots of extensions. I love the clients who call to ask if I filed their returns yet when I'm waiting on them to give me the list of information needed that I emailed two weeks ago. No, when you give me your W-2 and NY driver's license and answer the virtual currency question and give me details on the $6,000 you gave to charity and confirm your banking information and..., I'll complete your returns and send them to you for signatures.

Thanks to all of you for the comments. I am dragging. I know I am so very fortunate because I work alone, don't prepare returns with clients in front of me, and I've not missed a single day of work. Stopped working Saturdays a month early. But Holy Crow, I feel like I can't get anything done. I had five of my October PITA clients who became April PITA clients, and you know it's like pulling teeth to get them wrapped up. Bless their hearts; I don't know who ties their shoes for them. Add one million EIP calls and hey-my-return-was-filed-in-February-but-I've-not-received-my-refund calls. At least my folks are overwhelmingly pleasant, and I know some just want me to tell them we're gonna be fine. So thankful for the extension from April 15 to July 15. I sure needed it.

Or, the nonclient (friend, church acquaintance, relative of client, etc.) who wants your opinion because they think their tax professional gypped them out of deductions by failing to file Schedule A -- when the standard deduction was much higher than their itemized deductions or the SALT limit lowered their deductions or... My daughter's teenage friends each received $1,200 so now my daughter's mad at me for claiming her. Please amend my return. When will I get my stimulus check? What will be my capital gain rate for 2020? I often let my phone go to voice mail, because I encourage email so I have a savable trail. That meant I'd answer emails fast. Now, I'm letting many wait until I'm done for the night or until the next business morning (even if I'm sitting here on non-business days).

Tax software is IMO the ultimate in finding something that works with your brain. If their style isn't intuitive to how your brain works, you are going to struggle. Intellitax worked so amazingly well for my brain and OLTPRO is very VERY similar so it's why I stick with it. Forms entry seemed so impossible to learn but once I did - I couldn't go back to anything else. I switched around on my own until I found TRX and then THEY switched me around until the debacle that was 2013.

In the ATX users Facebook page, there was a post about switching to TaxAct. Some really liked it.

Or the calls about their tax returns, mailed priority, and aren't in their mail box on the expected date. As if I can do anything about how or what the postal service handles the mail. Ugh !!!

Yes! Just because you did their tax return, they think you should be “on call” to answer all of their stupid questions tax-related or not.

I used a program from MN... which had MN and WI - and then did the SABER!!! miss that and the bunny hop... need some fun here... D