TRX Software - BAIT & SWITCH - REFUND DENIED by TRX

[ed_accountant]

Doug Hughes, TRX Software formerly TRX Alliance President,

Why is my refund denied? Send me the digital voice file.

Here are the facts: TRX Software sells us Redgar Taxworks for two years in a row and immediately after Tax Season 2011, your Company solicits us for 2012 renewals promising the same software. I renew in April 2012 after using the same software for two tax season. I renewed only to purchase the Redgear Taxworks product. Now Mid December you send us a different software! This is bait and switch.

I am here on this forum because I have been calling your office for months inquiring about the Redgear Taxworks for the upcoming season. I have been asking Karen Bills for a refund for several weeks.

Your company should have been contacting us and all the customers that renewed early to let us know that you would not have the software. You waited mid December until we had found out by making our own inquiries to Redgear and you were about to ship your new software.

I believe if you change your refund policy, you gain more longterm goodwill with me and other former customers rather than this short term financial gain by not giving refunds.

[TRX 1]

Doug Hughes, TRX Software formerly TRX Alliance President,

Why is my refund denied? Send me the digital voice file.

Here are the facts: TRX Software sells us Redgar Taxworks for two years in a row and immediately after Tax Season 2011, your Company solicits us for 2012 renewals promising the same software. I renew in April 2012 after using the same software for two tax season. I renewed only to purchase the Redgear Taxworks product. Now Mid December you send us a different software! This is bait and switch.

I am here on this forum because I have been calling your office for months inquiring about the Redgear Taxworks for the upcoming season. I have been asking Karen Bills for a refund for several weeks.

Your company should have been contacting us and all the customers that renewed early to let us know that you would not have the software. You waited mid December until we had found out by making our own inquiries to Redgear and you were about to ship your new software.

I believe if you change your refund policy, you gain more longterm goodwill with me and other former customers rather than this short term financial gain by not giving refunds.

Ed if you want RedGear I will sell it to you but at $550.00 upcharge. That is the best I can do, this is my cost.

[tetspa]

I've been following this forum for the past few years, and after reading all of the posts about TRX I have something to say.

TRX is a trade association group. You JOIN them (and your payment is for membership) and in return you get membership benefits (in this case whatever software they provide you, whether ATX, RedGear, or "in-house"). In theory under perfect conditions where everything works, you get good software at a huge discount. The downside is that since you are not buying it from the manufacturer, you don't get support from them - you have to get support from TRX. That may be ok, or not, depending on what problems you run into. But it is a calculated risk you take when you join them (and you may in fact be joining them "only" to get the software - nothing wrong with that, but again, it is the risk you take...particularly when you sign up early in the year for next year).

Now, TRX should FULLY explain that to everyone when they sign up. It was fairly clear to me when I signed up with them several years ago. Since I haven't been a member of TRX for over 3 years, I can't say whether or not their sales pitch morphed into a "you are pre-paying to buy software" from what used to be "you are paying to become a member and as a benefit you get the software at no additional cost". If it did, then that is TRX's bad. But you are wasting your time, effort, and breath if you think you are going to get a refund.

If anybody signs up for TRX, they need to know that they will get "whatever" software they will provide each hear, and it may in fact be different software each year. The only way not to get stuck is to wait until Dec to renew after you have seen the demo of the new software for the year. Ignore the calls to renew early at a discount. And understand the pros and cons of using a third-party arrangement.

[tetspa]

And one more thing...Doug Hughes needs to stop needling around and just tell everyone that nobody will get a refund as opposed to this song-and-dance.

[TRX 1]

And one more thing...Doug Hughes needs to stop needling around and just tell everyone that nobody will get a refund as opposed to this song-and-dance.

I appreciate your comments I think?? However we are issuing refunds to the ones that were promised a RedGear product, we have to check points the phone conversation and the notes in our CRM at the time of sell. But most people are not wanting refunds once they look at our TRX Pro and see how easy it is to use. You are somewhat right in your explanation and it says basically what you said on our website in the FAQ section, good thing though is we have our own Software and no one will have to switch going forward. Thanks Doug

[JJStephens]

I appreciate your comments I think?? However we are issuing refunds to the ones that were promised a RedGear product, we have to check points the phone conversation and the notes in our CRM at the time of sell. But most people are not wanting refunds once they look at our TRX Pro and see how easy it is to use. You are somewhat right in your explanation and it says basically what you said on our website in the FAQ section, good thing though is we have our own Software and no one will have to switch going forward. Thanks Doug

Doug-- I have tried working through your office, to no avail. It seems that this forum is the best way to actually get a response from you. I would have preferred the private method but that has proven fruitless.

I am one of those who DO want a refund (as I have mentioned in several calls to you and to Karen). I don't recall if I was specifically told I would get the same product as last year. I do know that both you and Karen have told me that you were in negotiations with Red Gear and expected to have a contract. That dragged on for months. Then you told us that even if you got a contract with RG the product would be different as they were re-writing it. I DO NOT want to have to learn a new product.

Frankly, last year was a disaster (which was only slightly better than the year before). Back in June I concluded that I cannot afford another year like last year and began requesting a cancellation/refund. I also bit the bullet and ordered my old software at a considerably higher price. On the occasions I was able to get through to someone at TRX my request was summarily denied. I appealed several times for reconsideration and was told that YOU would get back with me. Neither you nor anyone else ever did. I am NOT impressed with the way your company is run. If mine was run like that I'd be out of business.

On at least two occasions I have given your personnel a change of address. Even still, the 2012 software was shipped to my old address. I went to your website a couple days ago to change the address--it had my new address listed. I finally got my software--software I DO NOT want and will not use--today.

Doug--I really want to end this relationship amicably but you and your folks are not making that easy. I really want to send this software back to you and get my money back (you can keep the shipping fee if you wish). If you wish to contact me outside of this forum that's fine (you have my contact info). That failing, I will be adding my input to what is surely a growing list of complaints with the BBB, the TN attorney general and whoever else I can think of.

Jerry Stephens

[Roberts]

But most people are not wanting refunds once they look at our TRX Pro and see how easy it is to use.

Ahh propaganda. Nobody wants a refund after reviewing a software that doesn't actually work?

you say you did 50,000 returns last year with this yet basic functions don't work. Amazing.

[TRX 1]

Doug-- I have tried working through your office, to no avail. It seems that this forum is the best way to actually get a response from you. I would have preferred the private method but that has proven fruitless.

I am one of those who DO want a refund (as I have mentioned in several calls to you and to Karen). I don't recall if I was specifically told I would get the same product as last year. I do know that both you and Karen have told me that you were in negotiations with Red Gear and expected to have a contract. That dragged on for months. Then you told us that even if you got a contract with RG the product would be different as they were re-writing it. I DO NOT want to have to learn a new product.

Frankly, last year was a disaster (which was only slightly better than the year before). Back in June I concluded that I cannot afford another year like last year and began requesting a cancellation/refund. I also bit the bullet and ordered my old software at a considerably higher price. On the occasions I was able to get through to someone at TRX my request was summarily denied. I appealed several times for reconsideration and was told that YOU would get back with me. Neither you nor anyone else ever did. I am NOT impressed with the way your company is run. If mine was run like that I'd be out of business.

On at least two occasions I have given your personnel a change of address. Even still, the 2012 software was shipped to my old address. I went to your website a couple days ago to change the address--it had my new address listed. I finally got my software--software I DO NOT want and will not use--today.

Doug--I really want to end this relationship amicably but you and your folks are not making that easy. I really want to send this software back to you and get my money back (you can keep the shipping fee if you wish). If you wish to contact me outside of this forum that's fine (you have my contact info). That failing, I will be adding my input to what is surely a growing list of complaints with the BBB, the TN attorney general and whoever else I can think of.

Jerry Stephens

Jerry you are right this is not the place to talk to me about this. I respond to every email I receive so that would have been the place, however one thing seems odd you say you want a refund, you say you do not want the software and yet you say just a couple days ago you went to our website to do a change of address???? I can also see you have never done much contract negotiating, however we still feel we did the right thing by not signing a contract that would be not in either mine our my customers favor. Doug Hughes

[JJStephens]

Jerry you are right this is not the place to talk to me about this. I respond to every email I receive so that would have been the place, however one thing seems odd you say you want a refund, you say you do not want the software and yet you say just a couple days ago you went to our website to do a change of address???? I can also see you have never done much contract negotiating, however we still feel we did the right thing by not signing a contract that would be not in either mine our my customers favor. Doug Hughes

Doug--I chose this forum because it seems to get a response from you more quickly than when I contact your office. Further, I suggested you contact me outside this forum to further discuss it. You did not do so, choosing to respond here instead. I chose this forum yesterday because I have not been able to get a response from your office directly. Karen B told me about a month ago that she would take my request to you and that you would be in touch soon. I have not heard anything from her or from you. That is the second time that has happened. This method, on the other hand, seems to have worked rather well.

You're right, I have not done much contract negotiating, though I fail to see the relevance of that (other than, perhaps, to disparage me). Frankly, it is a non sequitur. Even if it were relevant, that does not prevent me knowing the difference between right and wrong and between good business practice and bad.

The only reason I went to the TRX web site a couple days ago was to see if you had my address listed correctly. I did that because FedEx notified me they had a package from TRX that was delivered to the address I moved from in September. I had previously notified you of my new address. The address in my online profile was correct but the phone was not. I changed the phone number. My reason for checking was that I did want to have the software in hand to be able to return to you in the event you decide to do the right thing and give me a refund.

Doug, I am not mad at you or TRX and I do not wish you or them ill. I simply made a decision that your product was not working for me and asked for a refund. I did that all the way back in June, long before TRX had done anything other than to draft my bank account. Your office responded only by saying, "we refund only to new clients within the first 30 days. We do not refund renewals. Period." Given your recent history (over the past couple years) I don't think that is an appropriate response. I came on board three years ago thinking it was a cost effective way to continue using the ATX product I had used for approx 15 years. The first year was great. The second year I got a different product (without even a note to say ATX was no longer available--I heard about the switch on this forum). I had a lot of trouble with the Red Gear product the first year I used it and much, much more trouble last year. I renewed last March/April only very reluctantly. I had heard that Red Gear was retooling their software and you told me that yours was in rapid development. You even asked me if I would assist with one aspect of it (for the clergy market niche I primarily serve). Even though I was not planning to use the software I agreed to do that in an effort to help you out. I never heard from anyone in your organization until months later when someone emailed to say they were handling that part of the development and wanted to know what particular feature I wanted to request they include. Over the past year I looked (several times) at your in-house product demo. It simply does not work in the environment I work in. Before last tax season you advertised it as ready to go. I saw either earlier in this thread or perhaps in another on this site that you're now calling last year's version a beta. A couple months ago (after talking with you) I decided that in the interest of fairness I would try it again. I tried entering the data from my own return using the latest demo. It could not handle even the most basic things. I was distressed. It only intensified my decision to move on.

Doug, I commend you and your team for its effort to develop a cost effective product. I wish you well in that. I truly hope it works and you and many others become fabulously wealthy from it! My issue is that I signed up for something that is not being delivered. I'm not in a position of being able to wait for it to mature. I caught a ton of flack from my clients last year over the problems I had. I cannot afford a repeat of that. As I stated previously, I already bit the bullet and paid the extra bucks to get a tried and true product. Please, Doug, what I (and apparently quite a few others) am asking is only fair.

[TRX 1]

Doug--I chose this forum because it seems to get a response from you more quickly than when I contact your office. Further, I suggested you contact me outside this forum to further discuss it. You did not do so, choosing to respond here instead. I chose this forum yesterday because I have not been able to get a response from your office directly. Karen B told me about a month ago that she would take my request to you and that you would be in touch soon. I have not heard anything from her or from you. That is the second time that has happened. This method, on the other hand, seems to have worked rather well.

You're right, I have not done much contract negotiating, though I fail to see the relevance of that (other than, perhaps, to disparage me). Frankly, it is a non sequitur. Even if it were relevant, that does not prevent me knowing the difference between right and wrong and between good business practice and bad.

The only reason I went to the TRX web site a couple days ago was to see if you had my address listed correctly. I did that because FedEx notified me they had a package from TRX that was delivered to the address I moved from in September. I had previously notified you of my new address. The address in my online profile was correct but the phone was not. I changed the phone number. My reason for checking was that I did want to have the software in hand to be able to return to you in the event you decide to do the right thing and give me a refund.

Doug, I am not mad at you or TRX and I do not wish you or them ill. I simply made a decision that your product was not working for me and asked for a refund. I did that all the way back in June, long before TRX had done anything other than to draft my bank account. Your office responded only by saying, "we refund only to new clients within the first 30 days. We do not refund renewals. Period." Given your recent history (over the past couple years) I don't think that is an appropriate response. I came on board three years ago thinking it was a cost effective way to continue using the ATX product I had used for approx 15 years. The first year was great. The second year I got a different product (without even a note to say ATX was no longer available--I heard about the switch on this forum). I had a lot of trouble with the Red Gear product the first year I used it and much, much more trouble last year. I renewed last March/April only very reluctantly. I had heard that Red Gear was retooling their software and you told me that yours was in rapid development. You even asked me if I would assist with one aspect of it (for the clergy market niche I primarily serve). Even though I was not planning to use the software I agreed to do that in an effort to help you out. I never heard from anyone in your organization until months later when someone emailed to say they were handling that part of the development and wanted to know what particular feature I wanted to request they include. Over the past year I looked (several times) at your in-house product demo. It simply does not work in the environment I work in. Before last tax season you advertised it as ready to go. I saw either earlier in this thread or perhaps in another on this site that you're now calling last year's version a beta. A couple months ago (after talking with you) I decided that in the interest of fairness I would try it again. I tried entering the data from my own return using the latest demo. It could not handle even the most basic things. I was distressed. It only intensified my decision to move on.

Doug, I commend you and your team for its effort to develop a cost effective product. I wish you well in that. I truly hope it works and you and many others become fabulously wealthy from it! My issue is that I signed up for something that is not being delivered. I'm not in a position of being able to wait for it to mature. I caught a ton of flack from my clients last year over the problems I had. I cannot afford a repeat of that. As I stated previously, I already bit the bullet and paid the extra bucks to get a tried and true product. Please, Doug, what I (and apparently quite a few others) am asking is only fair.

Jerry I wish you the best and if you ever need anything I will be here. Doug

[Terry D EA]

I know one thing that is for sure at this point. This will indeed be my last year with TRX. I have been following this forum all along and am not impressed with any of he reponses from Doug Hughes. I agree that talk is cheap and let's see some action.

[Guest Taxed]

I see there are unhappy folks who use Taxworks and ATX also because these companies decided to do a complete revamp of their software without early communication to their clients, and are use them as beta testers in January, just before the tax season. What is the liability of a tax software company if their programming is faulty that causes a calculation error because of no fault of the tax preparer and the client has to pay interest and penalties. Some errors are not caught by the IRS computer until 2 years after filing!

[Crank]

Many years ago (15+) I had an error calculation on a complex return and ProSeries paid the interest. The principal was due by the taxpayer anyway. However it was less than $25. The client was very understanding and remained with me but I was embarased and try to check all calculations which in a way defeats some of the reason for having tax software in the first place.

[Terry D EA]

I had a similar scenario with ATX and ATX did pay the interest and penalties.

<<What is the liability of a tax software company if their programming is faulty that causes a calculation error because of no fault of the tax preparer and the client has to pay interest and penalties.>>

If I remember correctly, there was a blurb in the study material that I used for the 15 hours that mentioned the IRS considers it a lame response to blame the software for an error.

[MAMalody]

It is interesting to note the above response did not indicate getting hold of JJ or a refund was forthcoming.

[JJStephens]

It is interesting to note the above response did not indicate getting hold of JJ or a refund was forthcoming.

Nine days later I have still heard nothing from them. I've concluded that Doug's tactic is to simply stonewall untl the (likely former) client gives up. They have apparently written me off as a lost cause and therefore see no reason to communicate with me or even consider a refund.

I'm going to give the software to a CPA friend who has decided just in the last day or two that he's going to do a handful of returns this year. What do you suppose the chances are that TRX will contest me giving him the software? It would be a huge mistake on their part--they've lost me but there is a chance they might be able to cajole my buddy into stickinig with them after tax season.

[Guest Taxed]

Read the fine print in the EULA (license agreement) most of them have boiler plate language and it prohibits you from transferring that license. People think when they buy software the own it. You never own it, all you got is a non exclusive license to use it.

I think the software id is tied to the EFIN so your friend may not be able to file under his EFIN.

My partner and I have separate EFIN and we can't switch software.

[TRX 1]

Nine days later I have still heard nothing from them. I've concluded that Doug's tactic is to simply stonewall untl the (likely former) client gives up. They have apparently written me off as a lost cause and therefore see no reason to communicate with me or even consider a refund.

I'm going to give the software to a CPA friend who has decided just in the last day or two that he's going to do a handful of returns this year. What do you suppose the chances are that TRX will contest me giving him the software? It would be a huge mistake on their part--they've lost me but there is a chance they might be able to cajole my buddy into stickinig with them after tax season.

Jerry,

I am glad to do this for you, once you have done this please have the CPA to call my office 855-880-1040 extn 3558 and talk to Mrs. Hencey and she can change the CID & PID to the CPA's credentials. I still wish you would stay with us too.

Doug

[ed_accountant]

I started this post in December and Called TRX out for the BAIT AND SWITCH software. Tax Season has started and the Software does not work! You cannot efile! TRX Software is a Ripp OFF!

Professional software cannot be developed in a few months or weeks in the case of TRX. It takes years and even the big companies have problems.. The successful software companies have not made major changes and use the same format every year..

[ed_accountant]

I heard TRX is not refunding but offer free credit of software next year ! Who can trust them again..

[W-tax]

How ironic this Doug said about his tax product!

I appreciate your comments I think?? However we are issuing refunds to the ones that were promised a RedGear product, we have to check points the phone conversation and the notes in our CRM at the time of sell. But most people are not wanting refunds once they look at our TRX Pro and see how easy it is to use. You are somewhat right in your explanation and it says basically what you said on our website in the FAQ section, good thing though is we have our own Software and no one will have to switch going forward. Thanks Doug

[Crank]

Well, you dont HAVE to switch. He didnt say NEED or WANT.

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