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A Walk Down Memory Lane


joelgilb

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Seen a couple of threads here talking about the poor support for ATX, the layoffs in Caribou and the general changes being made by CCH and Taxwise. None of the changes seem to be favorable at this time, but maybe it is just a transition period.

Like so many others here I have seen one tax software product after another swallowed up by takeovers, buyouts and mergers. I have been with ATX since TAASC was purchased by Intuit and then discontinued immediately. I hope that CCH has not decided to discontinue producing this software, because it does offer more for less. As any software though, it does have some trade offs. For larger returns it is still runs slower than the competition. The import features are weak, and it does not automatically transfer k-1's to the individuals 1040's.

Never the less, it has had more to offer than its competition. Some of which is gone already, such as:

1. Great Technical Support

2. Short wait times to reach support

3. Quick program revision when we find errors

4. Chat Support

5. And this Community!

As such I am concerned, as others here have said - "The Writing is on the Wall" (someone else famous said that also, or is it "Another Brick in the Wall"?).

So, I am starting this thread to discuss alternatives to ATX, should the inevitable happen.

I have seen mention of the following tax software products and was thinking now may be a good time to discuss them. I am going to list a few that I know of below, although I do not have experience with any of them. Throw your thoughts out and lets see where it takes us.

1. Drake

2. Orrtax

3. Proseries by Intuit - used them in the early days and at that time it was fast. Left them when they changed the software and had so many bugs it was unusable. Not sure of the current speed or interface, but it is now pricey and well... Intuit is the enemy as they compete with us.

4. TaxAct - seems like it may be to low level for us, but never reviewed it.

5. Taxslayer - have seen one preparer use this, but I thought it was really a poor turbotax competitor and have not hear good things about this one

6. Lacerte - pricey. Haven't looked at it for some time, but my recolletion is it was input sheet oriented and I prefer to see the tax forms.

7. Abacus Tax Software

8. Ultra Tax from Thomson

9. CCH CompleteTax - Now if you thought the others were expensive....

10. GreatTax

11. HowardSoft's Tax Preparer - cheap, but I am concerned you get what you pay for

12. Taxworks

13. NTS Tax Vision

14. Crosslink

15. Saxon

16. Softax - limited States, and from the look of the website, I wonder when they will be gone

17. Superform Tax Forms - not a tax preparation package, but if ATX goes by the wayside, we may need this to fill the void in addition to a tax prep software, maybe we can convince them to move up to the next level and provide an alternative.

18. Autotax - nope, gone too, now part of Drake

19. Taxware Systems

20. and of course TAXWISE (Universal Tax Systems) hmmmm! I have used this one, and it is capable, but I did not like its input form methodology. Would I buy it, Probably not.

Ok everyone, what do you think?

Joel

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>>starting this thread to discuss alternatives to ATX<<

I used ATX ten or twelve years ago, then switched to ProSeries. It has worked nearly flawlessly. The extra cost, about as much as my fee for two or three returns, is covered by the increased productivity. I don't often post software comments, but as I read this forum I increasingly wonder why you all put up with the kind of treatment you have been getting.

I also use Lacerte (someone else pays for it). I believe it is by FAR the best choice if you have more than two hundred returns or more than half a dozen business or entity returns. Get over the cost. By the way, neither of these programs has tech support worth a darn. Fortunately, you rarely need it.

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Now's not the time to change software. I haven't had any problems yet with ATX. But I don't do a lot of the early bird stuff, RALs, efiled W-2s, etc. CCH's official communication is that they are not going to discontinue ATX. They may still later. Why worry now? I know they cut the Maine tech support and moved it to GA to be run by the TaxWise people. I hope they get up to grade on this.

As others have mentioned, other programs were bought out, some discontinued. It could happen. That's the nature of our business environment. I started with ATX for cost reasons. It got better each year. If I have to look elsewhere, I'll still be price sensitive. I'll check out CCH's TaxWise, but I'll also look at Drake. I'm not sure of the other lower cost programs.

I thought ProSeries was pretty pricey. Cost of two or three returns, not me. I think I need to raise my fees.

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>>starting this thread to discuss alternatives to ATX<<

I used ATX ten or twelve years ago, then switched to ProSeries. It has worked nearly flawlessly. The extra cost, about as much as my fee for two or three returns, is covered by the increased productivity. I don't often post software comments, but as I read this forum I increasingly wonder why you all put up with the kind of treatment you have been getting.

I also use Lacerte (someone else pays for it). I believe it is by FAR the best choice if you have more than two hundred returns or more than half a dozen business or entity returns. Get over the cost. By the way, neither of these programs has tech support worth a darn. Fortunately, you rarely need it.

In response to Jainen:

Ten to twelve years ago was when I switched from Proseries. They had totally changed the interface of the prgram and took a very fast software and slowed it down. I understand from a friend that this has been corrected, but I still have a fundamental problem using this software and it is not cost based. INUTUIT COMPETES WITH US! Why should we allow that.

Further, I know of at least one specific situation where support for the users was totally lacking. I had a friend who worked for them in the technical area (he is a CPA and a Tax Attorney in CA), when he found a bug in the calculations of one particular area, he brought it to the attention of management, and suggested a fix. HE was told that they were not going to correct the error, even though he argued vehemently to no end. He then argued that at least they should notify the accountants and sggest a work around and was told to bury it and keep quiet or he would lose his job.

I am a user of Quickbooks, as I seem to have little choice, with as many clients that use the software. Again, hare Intuit's attitude and position is a problem. On multiple occasions, I have called their tech support for problems (too much to add specifics here, but if you want let me know) to get answers that they have never seen this problem before. They would then after wasting my hours of my time, and suggesting I uninstall and reinstall the software, suggest that it is not their software but conflicts with other software and that they could not fix my problem nor give me any additional help. In almost all of the cases I later went to their community and researched the problem, to find that the problem I was having or my client was having was a hot issue there, no one else had a solution and that the community was hot at Intuit's attitude and failure to even admit the problem let alone fix it.

I do not feel that this is the software company that I want to be in bed with!

I also agree that my fees are to low, since I can't do just 3 returns to offset the cost of Proseries, but cost is not my primary concern. WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR CLIENTS?

As for Lacerte, I have personally convinced 3 different people to switch to ATX over Lacerte. They agree that Lacerte is a higher end product, but all are happier with ATX. And, again it is owned by Intuit. Nuff said!

Now as to your comments Randall. I agree with you. This year is not the time to switch. I do hope that CCH stands by it's promise to maintain this product, but, this is not the topic of this thread.

My concern is that CCH is going to discontinue the ATX line anyway. Everything they have done so far follows a pattern of other tax software companies that have acquired a competitor and subsequently moved the customer base to their other products. With CCH this is only a concern because they purchase both ATX and Taxwise, as they know we are not potential customers of their ProSystem FX. But do they really want to keep 2 competing products on the lower end of their market? I do think that ATX and Taxwise compete head to head. If it were my decision at CCH, well one would have to go. I pray that this is not the case here, but want to be prepared.

So this thread is to discuss alternates "In Case of the Inevitable". I, unlike a few of the people in this community (from the posts I have read) have no intention of switching unless I have no other choice. ATX offers me a product I can use in other areas of my legal practice (for instance it has State Incorporation documents), something NONE of the other software products out there can do, with the possible exception of Superforms (haven't checked if they can fill this void yet).

Joel

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I am concerned, as others here have said - "The Writing is on the Wall" (someone else famous said that also, or is it "Another Brick in the Wall"?).

So, I am starting this thread to discuss alternatives to ATX, should the inevitable happen.

I have seen mention of the following tax software products and was thinking now may be a good time to discuss them. I am going to list a few that I know of below, although I do not have experience with any of them. Throw your thoughts out and lets see where it takes us.

1. Drake

3. Proseries by Intuit - used them in the early days and at that time it was fast. Left them when they changed the software and had so many bugs it was unusable. Not sure of the current speed or interface, but it is now pricey and well... Intuit is the enemy as they compete with us.

4. TaxAct - seems like it may be to low level for us, but never reviewed it.

5. Taxslayer - have seen one preparer use this, but I thought it was really a poor turbotax competitor and have not hear good things about this one

6. Lacerte - pricey. Haven't looked at it for some time, but my recolletion is it was input sheet oriented and I prefer to see the tax forms.

-

Ok everyone, what do you think?

Joel

I think you have underestimated TaxAct. The only problem with TaxAct is that it does not include all State non-resident tax programs (unless this has changed) and it did not include the TX Franchise Tax (and may not include the new TX margin tax which replaces the Franchise tax.) OTHERWISE, it is just as good as the more expensive programs. The program is about $100 plus a fee for each e-filing or $500 for unlimited e-filing. One problem is that it does not include a program to convert from ATX or other software.

I switched from ATX to Drake this year. I've had no problems. You get immediate help and if you e-mail them a question that they need to discuss before answering they call you back promptly. They have a forum where you can usually get answers from Adam Drake or other employees or from other tax preparers. They also include a Client Writeup program which can be used to keep sets of books--or for payroll and creation of 941s, 940s, W-2s and 1099s. I've used it for all of these payroll features and for e-filing 1099MISC. I don't use it for keeping books since I've used Peachtree for accounting ever since it was an MS/DOS program.

I am also a former user of ProSeries. I quit since it was more cost effective to use a program that provided all type return-preparation for a single price.

I tried Tax Slayer. It was the worst one I tried, but it may be a lot better now. When I first tried Drake, I didn't like it, but it has improved considerably since 2003 when I previously tried it.

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>>I can't do just 3 returns to offset the cost of Proseries<<

My ProSeries renewal this year was $999 including efile, $400 more than ATX office package. If an average Schedule C return is at least $150, you will appreciate the powerful data entry, diagnostics, and printing features. They will help you build a practice that does not compete with Intuit's consumer product, which is marketed to taxpayers who don't need professional help and don't want to pay more than $75.

>>6. Lacerte - pricey. Haven't looked at it for some time, but my recollection is it was input sheet oriented and I prefer to see the tax forms.<<

If ATX fits your practice well, I wouldn't expect you to convert to Lacerte unless you are doing a major overhaul. The learning curve is high and it's designed for firms with many preparers. Besides the basic software cost, you would probably need equipment upgrades -- printer, scanner, copier, high-end computer network, dual monitors, broadband internet -- to take full advantage of it. Like ProSeries, it offers a choice of data entry methods. You use Lacerte worksheets but it is very simple to view actual forms (ProSeries lets you enter directly on forms).

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>>the Proseries package at that price<<

Like all software, ProSeries markets different packages, and has special offers for early renewals, conversion from other brands, and so on. And of course it changes every year--expect great offers from everyone (including CCH) when ATX cuts its users free. Check the websites and download demos of whatever you are interested in. Compare them during your copious free time in February and March, so you can make an informed decision in April.

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Yes I do. We would have to get those big green input sheets however. Remember your hash totals?

Maribeth

What I remember most is that we spent more time making sure the input sheets were filled out

correctly then it would have taken to fill out the return manually.

Booger (An Old Man)

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Gosh, you guys are all old if you remember Computax. Another thing I remember about using them was that you had to ship the input sheets out of state and then wait on them to ship the returns back to you. It made the cut-off around April 5 to allow for shipping.

Yea, and if you made ONE mistake on those input sheets you wouldn't know it until the return came back.

If I remember correctly the firm that I worked for used a March 31st cut-off date.

Booger

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Yea, and if you made ONE mistake on those input sheets you wouldn't know it until the return came back.

If I remember correctly the firm that I worked for used a March 31st cut-off date.

Booger

And if there was a mistake and it was too close to deadline to send back to them for revision, then we had to use the white correction tape over the mistake and follow it all the way through the return. Sometimes it would be easier just to do the return by hand (which I also remember).

Then . . . . when I went out on my own, the first tax sofware I used was Digitax. We had plastic sheets that went over the top of the "return" that we printed out in order to create the form. Do you remember that?

Maribeth

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I didn't do computax, but I do remember typing 3 carbon copies! - 1965

That was BC {before computers} Heaven help you if you needed a copy of the federal for the state {then it was 4 carbons!} ICK!n {oh and white out on all copies if you made a mistake!}

When I was just a "young thang", the Accountant I worked for used overlays -- returns were imput on a GREEN CRT screen and then printed to blank, continuous paper and we had clear overlays which we put over the printed sheet and ran photo copies. :blink::blink: :blink:

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And if there was a mistake and it was too close to deadline to send back to them for revision, then we had to use the white correction tape over the mistake and follow it all the way through the return. Sometimes it would be easier just to do the return by hand (which I also remember).

Then . . . . when I went out on my own, the first tax sofware I used was Digitax. We had plastic sheets that went over the top of the "return" that we printed out in order to create the form. Do you remember that?

Maribeth

How about "Stonetax"? We had to chisel the numbers on the stone tablet (the mailing costs were EXTREMELY HIGH).

Booger

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>>We had to chisel the numbers on the stone tablet<<

Yeah, that was a nuisance until they discovered clay. On the other hand, you could pay your whole tax bill with a bag of salt.

jainen, I was pretty fluent with "Stonetax"..........wonder if that was the reason that they said I was

a good chisler?

Booger

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Computax, FastTax and a had a couple of local companies in the Chicago area also. Guess we are all old!

I actually started an in-house practice in 1983 with Turbotax, which was designed to prepare one return. Had to create a squirrely batch file to get it to copy the tax file back and forth to a client directory and create my own client interface to do multiple returns on it. Then of course the TRANSPARENT OVERLAYS, or the squirrely facsimile forms.

Ahh those were the good old days!

TurboTax was actually pretty effective until Intuit realized professionals were actually using it. Then they crippled some of the basic calculations, raised my malpractice concerns and sold me the professional version for $1000 more (for instance Social Security no longer flowed to the 1040, this was now a manual calc, when just the year before it worked).

BTW ProSeries for $999.00? Not the full package is it? 1040 Complete is $$1249.00. I don't see $999.00. The PowerTax Library for $4,099.00, and the PowerTax Lite is $2749.00. Not sure either provides as much as ATX. Guess I could live without all the other States, but I always had this warm cozy comfy feeling when I had them.

Joel

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I think you have underestimated TaxAct. The only problem with TaxAct is that it does not include all State non-resident tax programs (unless this has changed) and it did not include the TX Franchise Tax (and may not include the new TX margin tax which replaces the Franchise tax.) OTHERWISE, it is just as good as the more expensive programs. The program is about $100 plus a fee for each e-filing or $500 for unlimited e-filing. One problem is that it does not include a program to convert from ATX or other software.

Part Year Resident and Non Resident are essential. Don't want to do these by hand, especially with a few of my large clients in multiple states.

Joel

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