NT - No one's coming after your guns, paranoid rightwingers. Oh wait...

[BulldogTom]

Borrowing from my own list, this is the conversation that has been going around Washington lately and getting no real press.

Should the President of the United States have the power of execution of American Citizens in foreign lands when he believes they are enimies of the state?

Should the President have the power to order the execution of American Citizens on American soil when he believes they are enimies of the state?

I have a real problem with this one. I know we need to protect our borders and our people, but being an American Citizen should still guarantee the basic rights of the constitution, regardless if I am in another country or not. Even the worst of US Citizens should get the right to a trial. Granting the President the power to secretly declare you an enemy of the state and allowing him to order your execution via drone strikes just seems to be the tipping point of saying we have no rights. And I don't want G-dub or BO to have that power. We have gone to a place that makes me very uncomfortable with the laws that were passed in the wake of 9/11 to expand the powers of the government.

Tom

Hollister, CA

[kcjenkins]

Agreed. I can see a very small "imminent danger" exception where there is strong evidence that you are about to commit a terrible act that will kill people, but even that is a very slippery slope. And if they know where you are to aim a drone at you, they also know where you are to grab you and put you on trial. It's also rather schizophrenic that people are in jail, right now, for using a legally owned gun to defend against an intruder in their own home, while the intruder who breaks in has all sorts of legal protections of his rights.

For example, section 505 of the Patriot Act relaxed certification requirements for issuing National Security Letters. These are basically search warrants created by the FBI or other federal law enforcement agencies. With an NSL in hand, an FBI agent can demand banking, phone records or other information about an individual from a third party with no actual warrant. The relaxed Patriot Act standards allow issuance upon showing that the information sought is “relevant” to an authorized investigation to protect against international terrorism, rather than requiring specific and articulable facts that the information sought pertain to an agent of a foreign power.

Who approves an NSL?

“The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or his designee in a position not lower than Deputy Assistant Director at Bureau headquarters or a Special Agent in Charge in a Bureau field office designated by the Director”

Between 2003 and 2006 the FBI issued 192,499 NSLs.

How many terror-related convictions did the feds get from all of these self-issued search warrants?

One.

The Patriot Act also loosened the requirement for “sneak and peek” warrants. They do not require immediate disclosure of the search to the individual under investigation. Sneak-and-peek warrants allow law enforcement officers to enter a home or office, look around and leave. Agents can’t seize anything, but they can use information gathered to show probable cause for a conventional warrant. Sneak-and-peek is not limited to “terrorism” investigations, but applies to all federal crimes, including misdemeanors. In fiscal year 2008, federal courts issued 763 sneak-and peak-warrants. Only three were for terrorism cases. Sixty-five percent were used in drug investigations.

We all like it when the feds get the drug dealers, but still, we need to ask ourselves just how much freedom are we willing to give up in the name of getting the bad guys.

[Catherine]

For all questions on these basic Constitutional issues, I VERY strongly recommend two incredible sources.

1. publiushuldah.wordpress.com -- Constitutional scholar, retired attorney, expert on the Federalist papers. Pick any post; read; be amazed.

2. "Good To Be King" by Michael Badnarik -- chapter 2, an *essential* discussion on the difference between rights and privileges, is available free on his web site, www.constitutionpreservation.org.

And I'll put in a minor plug for my own small efforts in this regard, www.constitutiondecoded.com, where you can find articles, videos, and other info as well. I am a poor follower of the real scholars, but sometimes beginners can help other beginners more.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

BY ALL MEANS YOU GUN PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR MUSKETS. Since we have established that criminals will always steal honest peoples guns and sell them to other crooks, let us all have guns, automatic guns, bazookas, tanks, and nukes.

After all I would not feel safe with just a six shooter if the bad guys coming through my door with something that shoots 100 bullets per second. I must have one that shoots 200 bullets per nanosecond. And I want DUM DUM bullets that pierce armored tanks. Yes siree all that BIBLE BEATING YOUR SWORDS INTO PLOWSHARES is a bunch of hogwash. I got my 2nd amendment rights. Bring back BOOT HILL !!!

I just wonder why most police forces think gun control is good ????

I suppose if KIMMIE were here she'd ban all of you for fighting.

[Jack from Ohio]

BY ALL MEANS YOU GUN PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR MUSKETS. Since we have established that criminals will always steal honest peoples guns and sell them to other crooks, let us all have guns, automatic guns, bazookas, tanks, and nukes.

After all I would not feel safe with just a six shooter if the bad guys coming through my door with something that shoots 100 bullets per second. I must have one that shoots 200 bullets per nanosecond. And I want DUM DUM bullets that pierce armored tanks. Yes siree all that BIBLE BEATING YOUR SWORDS INTO PLOWSHARES is a bunch of hogwash. I got my 2nd amendment rights. Bring back BOOT HILL !!!

I just wonder why most police forces think gun control is good ????

I suppose if IBANUA$$ KIMMIE were here she'd ban all of you for fighting.

FTM, you need some Xanax!! That is the most irrational repeating of rhetoric I have heard in a long time.

[Lion EA]

It's very telling that not one of the many branches of law enforcement or government asked any of you MA gun owners to be a well-regulated militia to help capture the bombers or protect your neighborhoods or even to protect your own grounds! They told you to stay inside your houses, or at least that's what the liberal media reported. But, I do have friends in law enforcement, including MA branches and branches that were in MA, so didn't rely on the media for more than pictures and headlines.

If your guns are locked up, then how can you hope to shoot before the robber shoots?!

And, the fact that the man/woman I kill is a robber or an attempted murderer does not make him/her less than human. Yes, I would be a killer. It is NOT for me to judge my life more important than someone else's. I might feel differently if our children were still in the house, as far as maternal instincts judging MY children more important that someone else's child; I don't know. But, it's be unlikely I could unlock a gun and get to my child's room before the killer already there shoots.

[OldJack]

>>I just wonder why most police forces think gun control is good ????<<

When was the last time you heard of the police keeping someone from being shot by a criminal?? They will, of course, come with their gun and fill out the papers about you being dead!

[Catherine]

>>I just wonder why most police forces think gun control is good ????<<

When was the last time you heard of the police keeping someone from being shot by a criminal?? They will, of course, come with their gun and fill out the papers about you being dead!

Why -- simply more MISinformation, that is why. Police do NOT support "assault" weapons bans, magazine bans, or any of the other useless-against-crime nonsense being bandied about.

91.5% of officers think an "assault" weapons ban would have a zero or NEGATIVE effect on gun violence.

Article:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/10/survey-shows-law-enforcement-united-against-gun-control/

similar article:

http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6183787-PoliceOnes-Gun-Control-Survey-11-key-findings-on-officers-thoughts/

Actual survey itself:

http://ddq74coujkv1i.cloudfront.net/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf

[Jack from Ohio]

It's very telling that not one of the many branches of law enforcement or government asked any of you MA gun owners to be a well-regulated militia to help capture the bombers or protect your neighborhoods or even to protect your own grounds! They told you to stay inside your houses, or at least that's what the liberal media reported. But, I do have friends in law enforcement, including MA branches and branches that were in MA, so didn't rely on the media for more than pictures and headlines.

If your guns are locked up, then how can you hope to shoot before the robber shoots?!

And, the fact that the man/woman I kill is a robber or an attempted murderer does not make him/her less than human. Yes, I would be a killer. It is NOT for me to judge my life more important than someone else's. I might feel differently if our children were still in the house, as far as maternal instincts judging MY children more important that someone else's child; I don't know. But, it's be unlikely I could unlock a gun and get to my child's room before the killer already there shoots.

I think I already explained how my self protection weapon is always easily accessible and secure at the same time. I have no children at home, so the need to "Lock" all of my weapons away is unnecessary. I guarantee you that if a criminal breaks into your house to do harm to you, you will hope the "good guys with guns" get there quickly and you will not be an athiest as you pray that they do.

[kcjenkins]

I just wonder why most police forces think gun control is good ????

JUST NOT TRUE. Clearly you did not read this post, that totally blows away your position.

[kcjenkins]

If your guns are locked up, then how can you hope to shoot before the robber shoots?!

Usually, you will hear him/them breaking in, giving you some time to get your gun.

It is NOT for me to judge my life more important than someone else's.

Maybe you don't think so, but I sure think your life, as an honest hard-working, law-abiding citizen, is much more valuable than that of a criminal who is hardened enough that they would break into an occupied home.

I might feel differently if our children were still in the house, as far as maternal instincts judging MY children more important that someone else's child; I don't know. But, it's be unlikely I could unlock a gun and get to my child's room before the killer already there shoots.

That we can not know, but two things occur to me. One, a mother rushing to save her child will usually move a lot faster than they ever moved for any other reason. When I saw, from the kitchen window my toddler grandchild run into view headed for the pool and fall in, I was there IN SECONDS. Don't know how, given my bad knees, but she barely got wet before I was there pulling her out. Two, even if, horribly, you did not get there in time, I'm certain you would still have wanted to try.

Besides, as I pointed out above, it's not like the intruder is going to be in your child's room ready to shoot, before you hear him. .

[kcjenkins]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. – Amendment 4 to the U.S. Constitution

For years, the 4^th Amendment has been whittled away. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 and subsequent amendments to it — including the FISA Amendment Acts of 2008; the USA Patriot Act;National Security Agency spying; the National Defense Authorization Act; and new technology that allows government snoops to peer inside your homes, cars and beneath your clothes — have all chipped away at its very foundation.

But this week, the 4^th Amendment, thought so important by the Founding Fathers who had experienced the tyranny of warrantless searches and seizures by British soldiers, suffered a double deathblow. The first came on Friday in Boston, as police ordered hundreds of innocent homeowners from their homes at gunpoint and conducted warrantless, illegal searches of their homes in a hunt for a teenage bombing suspect who had killed three people. And it came in Congress on Tuesday as the House passed the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act (CISPA), which allows the government to access online data.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

THE ONLY TRUTH on this thread is that most of you (from the title) are PARANOID RIGHTWINGERS !

Oh bless the day when OBAMA comes your way,

Oh bless the day your guns are taken away,

Then we can live in peace and joy,

They've taken away your cowboy toy.

Oh look at the grieving wife,

who took her husband's life,

she thought her gun was good

mistaking him as a crook in the hood.

Now he's good and very dead

and off to jail she is lead.

Now she's doing 20 to life

and Ilsa is her new butt ugly wife.

SO BUY SOME GUNS TODAY AND STIMULATE THE ECONOMY !!

AND JOIN THE NRA .

After all, the best gun is the one buried with you.

[Jack from Ohio]

FTM, what will YOU do when the criminal breaks into your house intent on harming you and your family and robbing you of your posessions? Please be specific...

[OldJack]

Its time this post is locked!

[Jack from Ohio]

Its time this post is locked!

Why?

[OldJack]

Why?

Because no one is going to change their mind or learn anything further!

[Catherine]

FTM has just proven that he is in no way interested in a discussion of the Constitution, the upholding of the basic principles upon which this country was founded, or issues and facts. Either agree with his point of view, or be castigated. (Refer to his anti-ATX/CCH rants for perspective.)

Such posts deserve nothing but being ignored, Jack from Ohio. Don't feed his self-importance.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

FTM has just proven that he is in no way interested in a discussion of the Constitution, the upholding of the basic principles upon which this country was founded, or issues and facts. Either agree with his point of view, or be castigated. (Refer to his anti-ATX/CCH rants for perspective.)

Such posts deserve nothing but being ignored, Jack from Ohio. Don't feed his self-importance.

Let's see: I stated my opinion (FTM post # 1) was then told A.) I needed medication, I was irrational and repetitious. I was told the cops being pro gun regulation was MISinformation, therefore cops are pro gun (which in my opinion is UNtrue). I was then battered by pro-gun owners going on about the constitution as if anti-gun people are UN American....

My second FTM post is now being attacked that if you don't agree with FTM you are castigated.

IF you truly read ALL the posts on this thread, you will see that most of you are PRO-GUN and few are ANTI-GUN and it is the PRO-GUN crowd who are attacking and bamboozling the Anti-Gun few. So let's not act like you really care about the opinions of the few. If anybody is being "castigated" it is the few.

Has FTM stopped you from buying your guns ?? NO Has FTM attacked anybody specifically ?? NO The thread tilte has "paranoid rightwingers in it...and most of you fit that bill afraid BIG BAD OBAMA is a coming for your guns. Better hide in your bomb shelters and safe rooms and wear your tin foil hats.

You all are just unhappy some of us disagree with you pro-gun stance.

NOBODY wants to take away your six shooter; we just don't think you need AK-47, M-16, and semi-fully automatic weapons with big bullet magazines THAT IS RATIONAL THINKING. But throwing constitutional arguments in our faces, that's BS and you know it, it ain't 1776 and the Brits ain't attacking.

And none of this has anything to do with ATX CCH

THIS IS MY FINAL WORD ON THIS SUBJECT....you don't like my opinion, FINE.

But what you really don't like is I won't knuckle under to your pressure... YEAH ...LOCK IT

[Jack from Ohio]

Because no one is going to change their mind or learn anything further!

I must now agree with you OldJack.

FTM has just proven that he is in no way interested in a discussion of the Constitution, the upholding of the basic principles upon which this country was founded, or issues and facts. Either agree with his point of view, or be castigated. (Refer to his anti-ATX/CCH rants for perspective.)

Such posts deserve nothing but being ignored, Jack from Ohio. Don't feed his self-importance.

I must also agree with you Catheriene. I will abstain from further posts on this subject. I do have an understanding of "...shall not be infringed..." and It is my observed opinion that our constitution also protects the rights of people to have limitied understanding and knowledge of the same.

[BulldogTom]

And none of this has anything to do with ATX CCH

Hence the opening letters of the post - NT. Stands for "Not Tax".

Tom

Hollister, CA

[kcjenkins]

But what you really don't like is I won't knuckle under to your pressure... YEAH ...LOCK IT

Actually, FTM, while we'd love to convert you, we know we can never convince everyone. And we grant you your right to a different opinion, although we'd respect you more if you'd give facts to support your opinion rather than just attack those who do not agree with you. I, for example, gave details from a very large survey of police officers, who were overwhelmingly pro-gun owners.. Your response was not to present facts, just to say " which in my opinion is UNtrue". Nor did your POEM add anything except friction, like most of your posts.

Never the less, I am going to lock it, because I do agree we've exhausted this subject. I also think the number of posts shows there was interest in the subject.