SaraEA Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The only question that throws me is #5: Did you satisfy the record retention requirement? To meet the record retention requirement, did you keep a copy of any document(s) provided by the taxpayer that you relied on to determine eligibility or to compute the amount for the credit(s)? I In addition to your notes from the interview with the taxpayer, list those documents, if any, that you relied on First it says did you keep copies of any documents you relied on, and then it asks which IF ANY did you rely on. How do you answer that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, SaraEA said: The only question that throws me is #5: Did you satisfy the record retention requirement? To meet the record retention requirement, did you keep a copy of any document(s) provided by the taxpayer that you relied on to determine eligibility or to compute the amount for the credit(s)? I In addition to your notes from the interview with the taxpayer, list those documents, if any, that you relied on First it says did you keep copies of any documents you relied on, and then it asks which IF ANY did you rely on. How do you answer that? Well, first, I'm not going to make any notes about what the taxpayer says because that's generally a mixture of blather and non-helpful information. But for the documents I relied on, I list: (1) School Records (2) Medical Records (3) Social Services Records. What I mean by school records is that I ask them to get either a report card with the kid's name and address on it or (preferably) a printout of their "Registration Information" which is a paper that many schools keep listing all personal info: name, home address, date/place of birth, grade record, age, attendance dates, and every other thing you can think of. Even if they can't come up with anything else, I'll go with this alone. For medical records I ask for a doctor bill with the kid's name and address on it. Most don't have this, but occasionally they will. Also I'll ask for an insurance card; some have the address (which is what we're trying to prove), some don't have it, although I try to get a 1095-A/B/C (astonishing how many people say they never got one). By social services records I mean any kind of Social Security statements, county assistance papers, guardianship/custody decrees, any remotely semi-legal paper, court-issued or otherwise. Some of this stuff (except the school thing) doesn't have a home address, but I figure at least it shows I tried. All of the above is for EIC. If they're only getting CTC and I know the people, then I'll take my chances and the hell with it -- I'm not slogging through all that hogwash for it. If I don't know them, then I will. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have clients who have been with me since before the kids were born (or since they were toddlers). I've seen the wives come into my office with a big round belly, and gotten the baby pictures by email. They come in every year, I hear the tales of school and getting to take the class hamster home for February vacation, I see the kids coloring in books in the corner, they get bored and come climb on Daddy's lap - I am NOT going to go crazy asking for "proof" these kids are theirs or any of the other gobbledygook. New clients - those I'll ask for some documents. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Catherine said: I have clients who have been with me since before the kids were born (or since they were toddlers). I've seen the wives come into my office with a big round belly, and gotten the baby pictures by email. They come in every year, I hear the tales of school and getting to take the class hamster home for February vacation, I see the kids coloring in books in the corner, they get bored and come climb on Daddy's lap - I am NOT going to go crazy asking for "proof" these kids are theirs or any of the other gobbledygook. New clients - those I'll ask for some documents. That sounds good, but as to my above devil-may-care statement ("I'll take my chances and to...") regarding my disregarding CTC documents, I'm now not so sure that will fly with the IRS. If you answer "Yes" to 8867 question 5 ("Did you satisfy the record retention requirement), then it demands a list of the documents used (otherwise a "red warning" in the Check Return module keeps you from efiling until answered. Which is okay if you have documents. On the other hand, if don't have the documents and want to answer "No" to question 5, then a list of documents is NOT demanded in the Check Return module and you can efile with no problem. But the question is - how does this look to IRS (since I'm saying "No, I did not satisfy the record retention requirement)? In one sense, the 8867 seems to allow this by its "if any" statement right above the box 5 spot where you list the documents: it says "...list those documents, IF ANY, that you relied on." So, I don't want to say "yes, I retained documents" when I actually didn't, but is the saying "no" enough to make us dig some up and then list them to get along with IRS? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yes, I do keep any documents provided by the taxpayer that I relied upon. If the client didn't provide any, my answer is yes. If I didn't rely on any, my answer is yes. I only have to keep documents provided by the taxpayer THAT I relied upon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfizer Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 What about clients who DON'T have children but qualify for EITC? So many of the questions seem to apply only to taxpayers with kids but are we inviting trouble if we answer those questions "No"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 8:03 PM, SaraEA said: The only question that throws me is #5: Did you satisfy the record retention requirement? To meet the record retention requirement, did you keep a copy of any document(s) provided by the taxpayer that you relied on to determine eligibility or to compute the amount for the credit(s)? In addition to your notes from the interview with the taxpayer, list those documents, if any, that you relied on First it says did you keep copies of any documents you relied on, and then it asks which IF ANY did you rely on. How do you answer that? Sorry, but I didn't notice this post (yours above) before I asked the same question (below)" 12 hours ago, BLACK BART said: ...if you don't have the documents and want to answer "No" to question 5...the question is - how does this look to IRS (since I'm saying "No, I did not satisfy the record retention requirement)? In one sense, the 8867 seems to allow this by its "if any" statement right above the box 5 spot where you list the documents: it says "...list those documents, IF ANY, that you relied on." So, I don't want to say "yes, I retained documents" when I actually didn't, but is the saying "no" enough to make us dig some up and then list them to get along with IRS? What I meant by my above question ("...is saying "no" enough to make us dig some up and then list them to get along with IRS?") is that it seems if we answer "No" to the record retention question, then we are saying we are lax and won't comply with the rules (therefore putting us in danger of an IRS audit and prompting us to change the answer to "Yes" and go get some documents). I guess my real question is - is saying "No" to getting documents a "safe" option with IRS? Lion says (I think) to use "Yes" in either case (get documents or don't get documents). I'm not sure what's the "right way/best way." 10 hours ago, Lion EA said: Yes, I do keep any documents provided by the taxpayer that I relied upon. If the client didn't provide any, my answer is yes. If I didn't rely on any, my answer is yes. I only have to keep documents provided by the taxpayer THAT I relied upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 9 hours ago, gfizer said: What about clients who DON'T have children but qualify for EITC? So many of the questions seem to apply only to taxpayers with kids but are we inviting trouble if we answer those questions "No"? That's another good 8867 question. Questions # 9a and 9b are asking if we explained tiebreaker rules and advised that kids must live with the taxpayer. Since they don't apply to the childless who qualify for EIC on their own, we are forced to logically say "No." And, again, it seems (to me) that the tone of the question is "Did you properly follow the EIC rules and ask or did you not?" While the question's absurd under the circumstances, you still kind of get the feeling you're "in the wrong" because of the way in which these questions are posed. Oh well; maybe there's somebody at IRS who will later exclaim "What idiot posed this question to all EIC recipients?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 9 hours ago, gfizer said: What about clients who DON'T have children but qualify for EITC? So many of the questions seem to apply only to taxpayers with kids but are we inviting trouble if we answer those questions "No"? This is specifically covered in the 8867 instructions for line 9 where it says this: Quote Line 9 If your client is eligible to claim the EIC for taxpayers without a qualifying child, answer “yes” to questions 9a and 9b. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKSORH Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I generally use this wording and it has worked for me in answering those questions about the dependents, "Personal Knowledge". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I got one here with two children qualifying for CTC. One child lives with them and one does not. Kinda makes is difficult to answer 10a. But I am giving it the old college try and hoping the next directive is not to complete an 8867 for each child. I noted my dilemma in Additional Due Diligence Information. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BART Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 2/1/2017 at 2:08 AM, jklcpa said: On 2/1/2017 at 2:08 AM, jklcpa said: On 2/1/2017 at 2:08 AM, jklcpa said: This is specifically covered in the 8867 instructions for line 9 where it says this: Line 9 If your client is eligible to claim the EIC for taxpayers without a qualifying child, answer “yes” to questions 9a and 9b. Guess I could have saved all that writin' by following the old saying: "READ THE INSTRUCTIONS". Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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