Christian Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Sad to say the free file revolution has begun impacting my client list. Here even my local community bank is pushing Turbo Tax. I'll be packing it in in a few more years and luckily don't need the income but it sorta saddens me after so many years of hard work. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringers Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Christian, Sometimes the "free filing" can be our best friend. Just take a look at some of the outlandish questions that Turbo Tax users ask at the Turbo Tax Answer exchange. They want to inlcude their child's W-2 on their own return to "save him the trouble of having to file himself." They want to know where to put the 1099-MISC income they received on the Free File 1040 EZ. They want to subtract their gambling losses directly from their winnings on line 21. They want to know if having cancer insurance constitutes "being insured for the whole year." Ane then, after they file, they want to know what to do with the other W-2 that just came in. The level of frustration among the "free filers" is rising and they are beginning to respect what people such as you and I can do for them in terms of filing a complete and legal return. Don't be too anxious to "pack it in." I think the Millenials will need us more than any other generation in history. IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Christian is right. Don't underestimate the power of computing. Soon it will be a program that will ask the same questions I ask my clients. How many W2s do you have? How many 1099s forms do you have? Did you collect unemployment? Do you attend a university? do you have any children? Do you have anything other tax forms? A LOT of people will answer question 1 with a 2 or 3 forms and maybe 1 to the second question. At that point the program will open 1040, w-2 and 1099 input sheets and will not ask more questions. It will complete 1040 and efile it. That's what I call competition. HR is anticipating that and now it offers free filing for a lot of people. The future is only a couple of years away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardley CPA Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 In my opinion, for those comfortable navigating a computer, with a little financial knowledge and a more basic return, free file is the way to go. With that said, at my normal day job, a couple of folks ask for my assistance with their free file. It can be tedious navigating through the myriad of questions. Even then, many times the return does not populate correctly. There is a segment of my client base who can very easily use free file and I mention that to them before I begin their return. Every year they say the same thing, "I want to make sure its completed correctly and I'd rather pay you to do that." While free file options are becoming more sophisticated, I tend to think we are still at least several years (at least 5 to 10? I hope) from it having an impact. Maybe I'm naive? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Two weeks ago I had a guy come in with their two Forms SSA-1099s and one 1099-R. He was not new, so he knows very well that I don't overcharge. Be that as it may, he said, "I tried this myself and I think I'm getting a small refund, but I don't know WTH I'm doing." His refund was actually about $2,500. Of course, I went up ten bucks for listening to the confession. People will do anything to save money here. Of course, they will blow it on the Golden Corral buffet in Cookeville, or the 72 inch TV, but I digress. I would like to think all the DIYers that screw up will get letters, but they won't, and they don't come back. I would like to think all of them figure out they don't know WTH they're doing, like my guy here. They won't. Did I win him over forever? Nope. What is my point here? I'm not sure, it's Sunday, and I've had too much coffee. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail in Virginia Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I read an article that H&R is experimenting with using Watson, the computer that competed successfully on Jeopardy, to prepare tax returns. I am thinking that the end is in sight. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 As a DIY plumber, electrician, and carpenter I understand the desire to do things yourself. But knowing when you're in over your head, can be quickly realized, so going to a professional is what most people will do. I tend to think this is true in preparing tax returns. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NECPA in NEBRASKA Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 A friend messaged me that one of the online softwares wanted to charge an extra $35 to add a Sch CEZ and SE to a return. She wanted to know how much I would charge to do the whole return. I'm sure she thought that I would quote her a lower amount. WTH? I just said I was too far into tax season to take on anything else. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, FDNY said: I understand the desire to do things yourself. I'm with you there. But I have found that there is a huge difference between being happy with the pretty new light fixture and being disgusted with the tax returns that are now completed. The latter brings very little satisfaction, and it has to be done every year, taking tons of time you could spend doing other things you enjoy more. Plenty of my clients came the first year saying, "I'm only going to come this year because of special situation X; hope you don't mind" who later (usually on pickup) then say, "This was SO much easier - may I come back next year?" They realize they did NOT waste three lovely Sunday afternoons wrangling with the doggone forms (that of course took me about 45 minutes total), and that the fee I charge is well worth the missing headache(s). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 The future is around the corner. This will be the advertisement in the NEAR future. TURBO TAX IS HAPPY TO ANNOUNCE... BUY ONLY WHAT YOU NEED AND DOWNLOAD IT NOW!!!!!!!! Do you have only W-2 form(s)? if yes, your package will cost you 9.99 with free efile and will include form 1040 with W-2s inputs. Do you have w-2 and 1099? if yes, your package will cost you 14.99 with free efile. Your package will include all of the above and more. Did you collect unemployment last year? if yes, your package will cost you 19.99 with free efile. Your package will include all of the above and more. Do you have 1099 as a contractor? if yes, your package will cost you 19.99 with free efile. Your package will include all of the above and more. Do you have a mortgage on you primary or secondary? Your package will cost 24.99 with free efile. Your package will include all of the above and more. Did you attend a university last year and paid with loans or out of pocket, your package will cost 34.99 with free efile. Your package will include all of the above and more. Do you have your own business or rental properties or investments accounts other than 401Ks or IRAs? if yes, your package will include none of the above and you should contact our experts at 1-800-MYTURBO or email our experts at [email protected] 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 And then there's this article in the NY Times the other day (2/17). Those darn Turbo Tax guys. How to Fill Out Your Tax Return Like a Pro - The New York Times.url 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowdahead Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Many free programs either don't provide the option to file the state return, or they charge for that. Not expecting that, I suspect many filers simply don't file the state or put of for later and probably forget or never get to it. It baffles my mind that someone would use a free file program to avoid paying yet leave hundreds or thousands of dollars in a state refund uncollected... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 For $55 you can download Tax Act which will do any kind of 1040 and one state return. If you have no Schedule C, it is less than $55. Since I am no longer a professional tax preparer, I use Tax Act to do my return and my two daughters and their spouses'. The best way is to fill out the forms, then go to the interview method to make sure you haven't overlooked anything. Then try e-filing which will catch anything else you have overlooked 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowdahead Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, taxxcpa said: For $55 you can download Tax Act which will do any kind of 1040 and one state return. If you have no Schedule C, it is less than $55. Since I am no longer a professional tax preparer, I use Tax Act to do my return and my two daughters and their spouses'. The best way is to fill out the forms, then go to the interview method to make sure you haven't overlooked anything. Then try e-filing which will catch anything else you have overlooked Good to know, but that's not free. They have to pay the $55 plus tax and then sit there and do all the work themselves and question if they missed something. Plus they need to make sure they retain access to a copy of their return for the future of they have to pay. I don't charge clients for copies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I lost one who's semi-retired and going to go DIY. (I think this is only my second client to go to DIY; the other also retired and had prepared his own returns when much younger so is giving it a try again. Both those people no longer have NYS NRPY returns, paid off their mortgages, one has kids done with college now, simpler financial lives.) And, another semi-retired couple who'd moved away, now found a preparer closer to home. Both stayed with me a long time after their lives changed. The couple took a lot of time with questions & calculations all year, so as much as I like them, I'm really better off without them. But, a teacher client recommended a couple she knows from work. And, a biz client that was himself recommended by another biz client has formed a new partnership and is bringing me more biz returns. So, I have as many clients and will make more money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Chowdahead said: Good to know, but that's not free. They have to pay the $55 plus tax and then sit there and do all the work themselves and question if they missed something. Plus they need to make sure they retain access to a copy of their return for the future of they have to pay. I don't charge clients for copies. Good idea. Let's be optimistic until the big software companies take our clients. Of course we are going to keep our complicated returns or business clients but the easy ones will fly away. Clients can print their returns on paper or save them on a jump drive in PDF formats or they can simply pick up the phones and say a few words to a machine and a week later have the tax return on their mailboxes from the IRS. I love to prepare easy returns while the TP is on the smart phone texting and chatting with their friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberts Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I have a client who produced an excel spreadsheet which will do his taxes exceptionally close to what any tax return will do. He spent a massive number of hours going through everything to produce. I have no clue why he comes to me and I assume he'll do it himself eventually. Unless your clients have something complicated like a trust / estate, business / farm, rental properties - the basic 1040 client is going away for good eventually. Anyone 45 or younger is computer savvy enough to do the basic return themselves. It's not a great business model to make a living doing tax returns for the dumbest 30% of the population. It works but they generally don't make enough to pay a large fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringers Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 We need to keep in mind that the "easy" returns for us are not necessarily the "easy" returns for a lot of the taxpayers out there! Regardless of how the software phrases the questions, some taxpayers will still misinterpret the instructions. I have seen "Turbo-taxers" add together their FWT, FICA, and Medicare and enter the total as "Federal Taxes withheld" because they decided that was the correct amount of taxes they paid in, regardless of what was in the various boxes on their W-2. I have seen them add their qualified dividends to their ordinary dividends and report that total as dividends earned. We hve been doing taxes so long that what is "easy" for us stlll presents a challenge to many of our fellow citizens, who will never be able to get parts of their returns done corectly by themselves regqrdless of future software innovations, IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 My local CVS had 4 cashiers at any time. When they were told that machines were going to do their jobs, they laughed. Today, there is only 1 cashier and about 6 machines and there is no more lines waiting for cashiers. At the airport, there are about 50 machines doing someone's job. I agree that we are going to be servicing "the dumbest 30% of the population" and then we are going to runt because they are so stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I get bored doing easy returns. And, I don't want the dumbest 30% of the population unless they are really, really nice to work with. My clientele needs my advice for next year and not just forms filled out for last year. I've been assuming I could shrink my business in my old age via attrition, but my numbers are up a bit each year from referrals from my current clients. I will have a career for as long as I want to work! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, RINGERS said: We need to keep in mind that the "easy" returns for us are not necessarily the "easy" returns for a lot of the taxpayers out there! Regardless of how the software phrases the questions, some taxpayers will still misinterpret the instructions. That is so true. Another returning client, only W-2s last year, just confessed that he was going to DIY (why do they do that?!), "but I bought a house". We have learned what that means. Well, itemizing doesn't help him. Yes, I will do the Sch A anyway. It's easier than explaining. Yes, I'll go over it at pickup. But, wait, what's this? Oh, I cashed out my retirement. No. That's not what he did. It's a 1099-B. They don't know what they don't know. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytax Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 11 hours ago, FDNY said: And then there's this article in the NY Times the other day (2/17). Those darn Turbo Tax guys. How to Fill Out Your Tax Return Like a Pro - The New York Times.url What is nice about this is that --- it is just like reading the IRS instructions //// /s - oh, so concise and easy to follow ... Many people (f they actually thought about it) would find the cost of the "program", time spent reading instructions (even interview) and still "wondering" if they have it covered would be BETTER off with a PAID Preparer. Less stress, worry and a number of benefits for future occurrences. But then , people are strange (includes me) and just get it in their head that DIY is less costly and better ---- how many times have I been "proved wrong"? Usually to have extra or more costs to "fix" what was done. There is hope for even the knowledgeable client, as they have better things to spend their time on. ///// They just need to learn that!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I love how we say that they need us because when they make mistakes they come to us. Yes, in the near future we are going to deal with "the dumbest 30% of the population" that will stay with us (by default or definition) plus the 2 percent that made a mistake and they humble to us and we will make a point out of them that no one should use the software. Just because we get 10 people who made mistakes, we think everybody made mistakes. I bet you that the percentage that made mistakes and come to us for help is less than 2 percent of the free filers. Why don't we embrace the idea that technology is going to compete with us? The big companies know that and HR for example is free filing in order to get future clients because they know software companies such as turbo tax are making a lot of money. The problem with the software companies is that they are using "one size fits all" but as they learn the market they will make cheaper products with less forms. Can you imagine a software package that cost 9.99 and 20 million people buy it. If that size is not big for you, you move to the 14.99 package? Let me go back to my client, since it is an easy form and he is texting I was able to answer this so that I least he stays with me for 30 minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfizer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I love the ones that don't realize you have caller I.D. who call and ask things like "where would you put the amount shown in such and such box on the the tax return?" or "could you tell me what it means if there is a number 1 in box 7 on my retirement form?" Come on, seriously. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberts Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 The current Republican tax plan is for individuals to get a $12,000 per person standard deduction. $24k per couple. The only thing that could go on the Schedule A is your mortgage interest and charitable deductions which in most of middle America doesn't get to $24k for a couple. State taxes, real estate taxes and medical would be waved as deductible items and in return the AMT is eliminated. That would make most seniors (just an estimate), ultra easy tax returns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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