I am too old to work with milenials

[BulldogTom]

Client is an engineer - Strike one.  Client is a millennial - OK, whatever.  Client set up his own LLC online - strike two.  Tells me about it at the end of doing his 1040 return.  No activity, just set it up and did not do anything with it.  So I do the CA 568.  We are reviewing and I show him where it is a disregarded entity and I used his social for the TIN.  "Oh, what about my EIN".  He did that too, and told the IRS he was a partnership.

Life is too short to deal with smart people who think they know everything and need to just click some buttons online.

Tom
Newark, CA

[Catherine]

And he is probably too big to put over your knee and spank, too.  Worse yet - he might not be too big, but would enjoy it! (ick)

Candidate for a Rita hug?

[rfassett]

And all I heard, Tom, in your post was "ching ching"! And that did not even include the PIA surcharge!

[BHoffman]

I made a little boy CPA cry the other day.  He is the brand new CFO for one of my business clients.  I prepare reviewed financial statements for them.  He's been awfully patronizing and arrogant.  I found a major, major error and gently let him know that it needed to be corrected.  Had to do with the book depreciation.  He cried that it would be a lot of work.  I empathized (on the outside) but felt just a little glee on the inside.  

[RitaB]

Yeah, my girl here that's so smart she apparently just hires me to save time made a big production of telling me she didn’t bother with adding medical and donations or bringing 1098 for mortgage interest  because she has done the math and doesn’t have enough to itemize, yet she highlights husband’s union dues for me.  And tells me what it is because apparently I can't read or see yellow.  Oh, yeah, I'm doing the 2106 and Sch A.  Don't be telling me about yer taxes. 

[Jack from Ohio]

38 minutes ago, RitaB said:

Yeah, my girl here that's so smart she apparently just hires me to save time made a big production of telling me she didn’t bother with adding medical and donations or bringing 1098 for mortgage interest  because she has done the math and doesn’t have enough to itemize, yet she highlights husband’s union dues for me.  And tells me what it is because apparently I can't read or see yellow.  Oh, yeah, I'm doing the 2106 and Sch A.  Don't be telling me about yer taxes. 

I do the Sch A and charge for it, even if it does not make anything better.  "Yes ma'am, I deducted those union dues, your $400 church giving and your husbands work boots.  I also included the $200 donation of items to Goodwill.  You can see them here on Schedule A."

[RitaB]

5 minutes ago, Jack from Ohio said:

I do the Sch A and charge for it, even if it does not make anything better.  "Yes ma'am, I deducted those union dues, your $400 church giving and your husbands work boots.  I also included the $200 donation of items to Goodwill.  You can see them here on Schedule A."

Of course.  If you don't, they talk all over town about how you didn't "let" them take their deductions.  I get a new client every couple of years that tells me that.  You can explain to some, but others will never get it.  Easier to do the form.

[Catherine]

17 minutes ago, RitaB said:

Easier to do the form.

As long as they see it on the Schedule A, they *never* make the connection to the "itemized or standard deduction" on pg 2 of the 1040.  It makes them content, and saves me TONS of time explaining things they already have their minds (wrongly) made up about.  Print the Sch A!

[ILLMAS]

This year a new client came in and told me they itemized last year, I asked a series of questions, do you own a house, pay property and mortgage interest, had high medical expenses, donated lots of monies to charity or have high amounts of unreimbursed employer expenses, they said NO.  Then I told them I would need to see your prior year tax return to see if your really itemized and I am still waiting for them to come back.  

[BulldogTom]

1 hour ago, Jack from Ohio said:

I do the Sch A and charge for it, even if it does not make anything better.  "Yes ma'am, I deducted those union dues, your $400 church giving and your husbands work boots.  I also included the $200 donation of items to Goodwill.  You can see them here on Schedule A."

I just can't go there.  It is too much like stealing to me.  I will patiently explain that the standard deduction is better for you.

Tom
Newark, CA

[rfassett]

1 hour ago, BulldogTom said:

I just can't go there.  It is too much like stealing to me.  I will patiently explain that the standard deduction is better for you.

Tom
Newark, CA

I agree Tom.  I like to think that my clients are (well most of them are) smart enough to know and care about there taxes.  At least, that is how I understand my job - to be the facilitator to their understanding.  I will occasionally print a Schedule A where it is not required, but only for teaching purposes.  And since I do not do form billing, it does not cost the client a penny more for me to that.

[jklcpa]

I'm with Tom and Ron on this. I won't prep a sch A when it's very clearly not needed and will explain that to the client.

Since DE allows itemizing when claiming the standard deduction for federal there are still times when I have to prepare the Sch A anyway. In cases where it's close and unused, if I've input the data it will be printed on the yearly comparison, so I'll use that summary to show the client that I considered the available options and explain how the standard deduction was more advantageous.  I don't charge by the form either.

[JohnH]

I usually enter the data, print out the Schedule A,  and then put a handwritten note at the bottm of the "A" with the total crossed out.  This goes in the "Client Copy" set of forms  

 

[RitaB]

I don't do form billing, either.  Probably most of us have some sort of hybrid method of billing.  We all know that all Sch Cs, for example, are not created equal.  We all know that a Sch A with two or three entries is nothing.  I print and explain to my clients once or twice.  Explaining takes longer than doing.  If you don't do form billing, I assume you do charge for your time.  If you don't charge for your time, I think whatever method of billing you use covers that somehow.  My time is everything.  When I see that a client is still bringing me these items, I choose two minutes and Sch A versus ignoring and risking them thinking I missed something and/or having the ten minute Sch A seminar again.  The charge is going to be the same regardless.  And it will be fair. And there is no penalty for looking at the return and reading it. It's not hidden in the fine print.  I teach the clients I can and survive the others. 

Now, if they want me to add a stack of receipts, I do provide bookkeeping services, and I assume they'd rather pay me for that than spring for a calculator and do it themselves.  They like their time, too.

And I am telling the next person who says "long form" that they are all 8.5 x 11.

[rfassett]

I do mostly value-added billing but when forced to I will do time billing on the tenth of an hour.

[RitaB]

There's a lot differences in preparers.  There's an EA on one board that charges a $250 "get in the door fee", there are preparers who will charge a wealthy client more than an average earner for the same return.  Seems like an asset charge rather than an income tax return charge to me.  Or a success charge.  Some charge more because they have more overhead.  Regardless, the great thing about capitalism is if they are unhappy, they can go elsewhere.  They can pay me X for a 1040 plus Sch A, or they can pay me X for a 1040 and a ten minute seminar.  Or they can pay someone down the road X + Y for whatever they do.  Or they can even pay the guy working out of his pantry X - Z signing as "self-prepared".  With a pencil.

And sometimes I do a "pull it out of my left ear" method cause I forgot how many times they interrupted me bringing in forms. Or how many times I had to tell them what was missing.

[RitaB]

12 hours ago, JohnH said:

I usually enter the data, print out the Schedule A,  and then put a handwritten note at the bottm of the "A" with the total crossed out.  This goes in the "Client Copy" set of forms  

 

I used to do that all the time. I'd even put "Form 1040 Line [SD] is higher",  Thank you, that's perfect.  I'll start doing it again.  It won't change anything, but I like it. 

[JohnH]

4 hours ago, rfassett said:

I do mostly value-added billing but when forced to I will do time billing on the tenth of an hour.

I like the "tenth of an hour" idea.  Reminds me of the lawyer who would come in to the office after spending most of the day on the golf course and return a few five-minute phone calls, logging 15 minutes of minimum billing for each call.  So in the last hour of the day he would bill a total of 3 hours to 12 different clients.

When he died, he was standing at the "pearly gates" and St Peter said, "Nice to meet you. We don't get many lawyers up here. I see that you lived 87 years."  The lawyer replied "There must be some mistake. I died in an auto accident at 35 years of age." St Peter replied "Oh sorry, my mistake! I was looking at your time sheets."

[SFA]

We generally invoice by the form and make adjustments if the form is more complex than "the usual." It's sometimes a judgment call, but I try to be fair. Occasionally, I will add an hourly charge and describe to the client why the fee is above normal rates--especially when there is a bookkeeping step, or stock basis calculation or special research time or other unique situation. Our clients usually know when they bring us something that takes extra time, and appreciate the explanation. It's frustrating to see a completed return and it all looks so simple when it's done--after many hours of extra work!

As for the Schedule A, when the figures come close to the standard deduction, and we have entered all the details, I do charge for the effort, and then printout the two-year comparison so they can see how close they came to the standard.

As for those clients who are dragging us down, they know what they are doing. I wonder what effort they would make if we needed a "big favor" from them. Why do we do it? Especially when we complain and dread doing their returns. There is no joy and little satisfaction in trudging through returns that we don't charge enough for--year after year. This is what I tell myself when we slip into the same type of situations. Gently dump the client; charge the right amount OR gift your time with grace. Remember, the time you give away to an ungrateful client could be spent with your spouse, children, friends, cleaning house, sleeping, etc. or taking care of the good clients! Your choice.

 

 

 

[RitaB]

13 hours ago, SFA said:

As for those clients who are dragging us down, they know what they are doing. I wonder what effort they would make if we needed a "big favor" from them. Why do we do it? Especially when we complain and dread doing their returns. There is no joy and little satisfaction in trudging through returns that we don't charge enough for--year after year. This is what I tell myself when we slip into the same type of situations. Gently dump the client; charge the right amount OR gift your time with grace. Remember, the time you give away to an ungrateful client could be spent with your spouse, children, friends, cleaning house, sleeping, etc. or taking care of the good clients! Your choice.

That was beautiful. 

[ILLMAS]

44 minutes ago, RitaB said:

That was beautiful. 

I made a rule for myself this year, if I cannot get out of work on time to spend time with my family, then I cannot take on more work or work for free.  It's funny how clients understand once I tell them.