Richcpaman Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Today's Crazy Return... Single Mom, two kids, lives with her Mother in the Mothers house. Has about $12-13k of income between a Sch C and W-2's. Mom is, of course, disabled... Father Died in 2017, so the kids get SS till age 18. And the kids got over $25k in SS that *all* of them live on. So? Can Single Mom claim the kids? Claim EIC? Head of Household? If I did not know about the SSA form for the kids, it would be easy... But I do. Seems to me, Single mom gets to file HofH, list the kids, but can't claim them, or get all the credits. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 If a kid provided over half his own support, Mom cannot claim the dependency exemption for the kid. If the Mom can claim a kid, and paid over 1/2 the expenses of maintaining the residence, she can use the HOH status. There is no support test for EIC, so Mom can "use" (for lack of a better word) the kids for EIC. I feel like there's probably no HOH (but she can complete Worksheet 1 in Pub 501 and see) or dependency exemption for Mom. But the windfall EIC, yes. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2017_publink1000220797 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Can the mom really use head of household? In 2017 did she live apart from the now-deceased father? If she lived with him and fails the lived apart for 6 months rule, isn't she required to used MFS that would disallow the EIC, or use MFJ? Even if she didn't live with the dead guy and trying to get to use HOH, she still might not quite get to the level providing 1/2 the costs of the household with her level of income compared to the kids' social security. Plus, you didn't mention how much money the Mother (kids' grandmother) is throwing into the mix to cover the household expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 How about MFJ, EIC, and do the worksheets to confirm or deny dependency? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richcpaman Posted April 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Father dies in Feb 2017. Probably drug related. Kids start getting Social Security soon after. between the two kids, more than 25k Grandmom owns the house. Do not know her income, but not much, probably disability, only. Or, if any amount of taxable income, makes her part in this simpler. Mom just does temp type work. and the net is such that she just owes some SE tax no matter what. HofH seems to be out, because Mom is not providing the Household. GrandMa can get it, maybe, but I am not doing her return. The SS to the kids in untaxed, no other income for them. So, the kids have more income than Mom, and GrandMom, so they are providing the support. So, that would seem to preclude exemption status. I really dislike EIC returns. And if she qualifies, great, but it is not clear cut, and this one will ring alarm bells when it arrives. Signed: Perplexed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry D EA Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 "If a child receives social security benefits and uses them toward his or her own support, the benefits are considered as provided by the child." To allow the mom or whomever to claim HOH, the qualifying person, tests, must be met. In your scenario, the real question is what the SS payments the kids received were used for. Normally, the SS benefits the dependent children receive in this case are survivor's benefits and you state that the kids have no other income which makes the SS benefits received tax exempt. The statement above was taken from Pub 501 under the qualifying person and 1/2 support section. It clearly states the "certain SS benefits that are tax exempt are included in determining if a person had paid 1/2 of their own support. The exception is above. Did the kids use the SS benefits received for their own support? If so, when looking at the income mentioned in your original post, then no HOH would be allowed. I have to agree with Judy in wanting to know with whom did the mother live for 2017 and how long. That is the first step in determining filing status. In your second statement you say mom lives with the grandparent ( I am assuming her mother) which in my opinion nullifies the HOH again. As you say, HOH is out and mom only has the option of single or MFJ if she lived with her deceased spouse. Of course, if they were separated then the 6 months out of the year rule applies. Find out who she lived with during the year and you'll have your answer. Mom will still win with the EIC and additional child support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Richcpaman said: Father dies in Feb 2017. Probably drug related... I really dislike EIC returns. And if she qualifies, great, but it is not clear cut, and this one will ring alarm bells when it arrives. Oh, were Mom and Father still married? Then, MFJ might be the way to go. I assumed they were divorced. I also hate EIC returns, but I don't think there are any alarm bells at IRS. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 D@mn, Lion made a good point with the MFJ and EIC. This is why I always look up the rules for both HOH and EIC to make sure I don't miss some one of the intracacies since I don't work with many of these returns. I still think you need to know grandma's income because isn't there also the possibility to that grandkids could also be her qualifying children if the kids didn't provide more than 1/2 their own support. If they are, then she could have possibly claimed the EIC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, jklcpa said: D@mn We have straight up corrupted you. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richcpaman Posted April 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 All of the Kids SS is going to support the kids, plus, Mom and Grandmom, since they don't make enough for themselves. Do not believe that the Father was ever married to the Mom. I see Single for the Mom. But she could still claim EIC on the boys at that point? That is like, wow... And yes, there are alarm bells at the IRS. Mainly for lunch hour... Rich 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, Richcpaman said: All of the Kids SS is going to support the kids, plus, Mom and Grandmom, since they don't make enough for themselves. Do not believe that the Father was ever married to the Mom. I see Single for the Mom. But she could still claim EIC on the boys at that point? That is like, wow... And yes, there are alarm bells at the IRS. Mainly for lunch hour... Rich I believe you have it exactly right, and yes, it's a big wow, and I bet you remember that Eagles' song "Lunch Will Keep Us Alive". Bacon. We need a bacon per diem. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Bacon would help me think. Or, at least, it would make me happier. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, RitaB said: We have straight up corrupted you. Haha, if you only really knew me in person, and even then, some get the wrong impression and try to behave around me. If they could only hear how I can cuss like a sailor when I get mad. Bacon would make me happy too. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richcpaman Posted April 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, jklcpa said: Haha, if you only really knew me in person, and even then, some get the wrong impression and try to behave around me. If they could only hear how I can cuss like a sailor when I get mad. Bacon would make me happy too. Who is bringing the bacon to the Rita's Bash??? Rich 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Richcpaman said: Who is bringing the bacon to the Rita's Bash??? Who has heard of the SUPERB fancy-dancy bacon from Burger's Smokehouse? Oh, man oh man oh MAN is it fabulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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