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advice on $15 payment for $848 bill?!


WITAXLADY

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client gets audited for 2013 - spent hours copying her receipts - she's in my office doing her work, etc... bill her $350 - leaves an expectation - low billing - former manager must not have kept time!!

Bill her for 3 years of taxes - she pays - she paid at the time until 4/15/2018.

comes in for 2017 and I present her the bill now for the 2014!! audit - yes later than I should have and  $360 for her taxes, including the $10 again for the 8867.

She is hot! says she already paid for 2014 and it was $350!!

I said I have not billed her for my time at all- just office time to copy and write letters and for Tax advocate, etc..

She pays her $360 for 2017 and leaves. claims they should be less - I say we do strictly by time on a program..  when do clients set prices? And prices do not go up $10 in 3 tears? !

She showed up last week and I was not here so office would not give her anything so she says I am coming back Tuesday, today for everything, removing me as POA, etc. and we better have all her stuff.

She is sweet as pie, hands me a check with a letter - I did not look at it as she had said she was paying me everything, takes her copies, then gets into it with me that she has talked to everyone under the sun including the judge and ?/ did not say what they said... but she revoked my POA and talked to the IRS and they were so nice and she could have done this herself... and leaves. Would not take statement and invoices where it showed she did not pay yet - and still  owed $848 and lo and behold, charges me for emails sent her and pays me $15!!  marked paid in full.

Tax advocate then called me! timely - about her and I said I could not talk to her - she said she never called in to them - no record  - she also said she had called TA - and no POA revoked on record.. and TA said her records were incomplete and the audit stood.

So she lied there, she lied about paying me the $350 that she subtracted, plus all the rest to get to $15? I thought she made it clear she was paying the $848 - she even said the check would clear!

So I doubt if she did talk to the judge - as he is MY good friend - he probably said if anything pay it!

My plan is to send her back her check - her statements and invoices  and then bill her for MY time another $900 at least and tell her if the $848 is not paid by 5/20 I will see her in small claims court and tell the IRS I was not paid for the 2017 (and 2016) taxes as $'s were applied to her account...

I could not get a word in edgewise when she was here - I was just going to let it all go - no use explaining anything to those lovely people - Until I saw the check for $15.. I will not eat $800 for legitimate work-

What say you all- chance of getting paid? 0 to 10%

satisfaction of certified signed letter - 55% threatening to go to court - 85%!!

Thx d

 

 

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After all is said and done, you'll probably spend another $900 worth of your time trying to collect and you still won't get any money.  She's a shyster, and pretty good at it.

Trying to get clients like this do the right thing  is like trying to teach a pig to sing.  After all your efforts, all you'll have is bad music and a frustrated pig.  

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I would check with your E & O insurance. Mine has told me in the past, that if I could not get paid without going to court, to drop it.  Many times if you go to court, they will countersue for malpractice. It does not matter whether you are right or wrong, it may cost you in the end through time and more stress. It sucks! I have had to walk away a couple of times and one was for my in-laws sister. I just had to see the witch at a family gathering again and I wanted to give her a Rita hug. I don't even know how she can show up anywhere that I am at. 

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You realize your chance of getting any money is next to nil.  What you want is public vindication for you, and public humiliation for her.

GO for it.  Small claims court fee is low - worth it to exorcise the anger.  And learn a lesson - retainer for ANY nonstandard work, and open the check envelope BEFORE they leave!

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Lose the check.   Send it to the great big shredder in the sky.

Send her a statement for the fee.

When she says I paid you what you are owed, $15.00, tell her "what check?"  There was no check in there."

Have her come back and GIVE YOU another $15 check.  She won't but her claim of "paid in Full" is void...

Have some fun with it.  You are NOT going to get paid.  So have some fun.

Rich

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, taxxcpa said:

I sued an uninsured motorist in small claims court and won the case

Were you successful in collecting the money?  I had a client sue a contractor and they won the case because the person never showed up to court, I don't think they collected a penny to this day.

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This is a good example of how not to run a business.   No estimate, no engagement letter, no down payment.

Without the first two, it will lose in any court.

The reason WI got screwed by her client is that the client thought that She was being screwed.  The time to agree on fees is before the work starts, not when the bill is presented. 

 

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3 hours ago, ILLMAS said:

Were you successful in collecting the money?  I had a client sue a contractor and they won the case because the person never showed up to court, I don't think they collected a penny to this day.

I had a client who built a garage for someone.  Sued him for payment.  The  guy counter sued, said the windows were off line or something like that.  The garage was passed by building inspectors.  My client lost.  Didn't get paid and had to pay the other guy $25,000.

 

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5 hours ago, ILLMAS said:

Were you successful in collecting the money?  I had a client sue a contractor and they won the case because the person never showed up to court, I don't think they collected a penny to this day.

Yes    I got a check from the county treasurer which the people I sued  paid to the county.

I started to sue a non-paying client once.  I had my daughter, who is an attorney, send them a letter,  but decided it would be more trouble than it was worth to go to court with them.

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well I do think I have an engagement letter - so am going back to that first... and sending her back her check and her invoices and statement...

and letting her know she lied about TA and I am revoking my POA as advised by TA

and I will probably take her to court so it is on her record...  - altho' I might ask for another judge if she is asking him for advice  :)

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Thank  you all - we are also writing a more laid out letter for any WI/IRS letters and we do now ask since about 6 months ago for retainers,,,

live and learn. Cannot hardly trust at all, and also letting them know they can do this  all them selves -

her co-worker, well she does not work at the company anymore - is doing hers herself - as I do not think she has much back-up, called the IRS and said they were being targeted as the original company was audited - and of course the IRS said it was random..

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16 hours ago, WITAXLADY said:

...the IRS and said they were being targeted as the original company was audited - and of course the IRS said it was random..

The IRS has different definitions of certain words than the rest of us, i.e. "voluntary", "random" are two.

Audits are selected in two ways - one is the reported document matching process.  Most of these are CP2000 audits and 1099MISC underreporting.

The other way is through a program that takes all tax returns and compares them with statistical norms, and those with anomalies undergo three layers of review by personnel.    The IRS is not going to waste resources on auditing a return unless they think there is a reasonable likelihood of recovering enough tax to make it worthwhile.    But, there are criteria throughout the process.  I guess this is what the IRS means by random.

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Wisconsin lady - I don't know whether you practice in a metropolitan area like Milwaukee or Madison, or whether you practice in tiny Westby or Stevens' Point.  If you are in a small area, casual mention of this dead-beat in certain circles could bring results. A tad unprofessional maybe, but meet the perpetrator on familiar turf.

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On 5/11/2018 at 6:14 PM, jklcpa said:

 

Are you serious?!  Try unethical and a direct violation of Code Sec 7216.

 

C'mon Judy.  I can't believe beauty shop discussions about some schmuck not paying their bill is the same as revealing information about subject's tax information.  Even I am not stupid enough to discuss anyone's tax situation, irrespective of moral turpitude.

I don't know these codes as well as most, but to honor your implication, I went back and read it.  Most of what I see involves the unsupported sharing of tax information and circumstantial sharing with third party requests.  If I have missed something, please enlighten me.

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2 hours ago, Edsel said:

C'mon Judy.  I can't believe beauty shop discussions about some schmuck not paying their bill is the same as revealing information about subject's tax information.  Even I am not stupid enough to discuss anyone's tax situation, irrespective of moral turpitude.

I don't know these codes as well as most, but to honor your implication, I went back and read it.  Most of what I see involves the unsupported sharing of tax information and circumstantial sharing with third party requests.  If I have missed something, please enlighten me.

 

Ron, if you are talking about your schmucky clients while getting your hair done, you need to stop.  😉

Sec 7216 includes ALL information contained on the tax return, including the taxpayer's identity.

As a start, please see Q&A #5 on this IRS page , but more specifically 

Please also see this page at Cornell law for the actual IRC sec 7216 and follow the pop-up for the definition of "return" as it applies to this section that takes the user to the definition of "return" that is contained in IRC sec 6103(b).

IRC 6103(b) lists out specifically the information it covers, including the taxpayer's identity specifically listed in 6103(b)(2)(A).

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45 minutes ago, jklcpa said:

IRC 6103(b) lists out specifically the information it covers, including the taxpayer's identity specifically listed in 6103(b)(2)(A).

Yes, indeed it does.  Thank you for the cite.  You are nearly always correct when someone holds your feet to the fire.

But if you follow the instruction to its logical conclusion, this means you cannot tell anyone who your customers are.  I wonder how many of us never violate that one.

Having said that it may bring results if someone's reputation is smeared, (and this certainly sounds deserving in the Wisconsin case) I will submit that there are some people so passive and well-disciplined in morality that they would never speak an ill word about anyone, no matter how prodigious the abuse.  I have the utmost respect for people like that, and wish I could be more like them.  But I'm not.

I wonder if there is a regulation that prevents us from speaking ill about taxing authorities - reference my recent post about Good and Bad States.

 

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My training was to never reveal my clients names nor information, never to "identify" them in any way.  I have OIH, but I don't tell my husband who my clients are.  Now many know my husband and talk to him about doing business with me, but I don't talk about doing business with them.

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