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Clock for 2013?


Edsel

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The window is still open for that. It's three years from the due date, including extensions, or the original return for the year of the NOL, so three years from 4/18/16 or 10/17/16.  April 18th is not a typo; special rules kick in when Emancipation Day falls on a Saturday.  

You must file this on 1040X though and include the form 1045 as part of that filing. See #4 below.

Also, Link to IRC Sec 6511(d)(2) as referenced.

Stupid rules on Emancipation Day's effect on due date, for anyone that doesn't yet have a headache: https://www.irs.com/articles/tax-deadline-alert-2015-tax-returns-are-due-april-18-2016

From the IRM, easier to understand than 6511:
 

Quote

25.6.1.10.2.8.1 (04-01-2007)

Net Operating Loss (NOL) Carryback or Capital Loss Carryback

  1. A claim for credit or refund based on the carryback of an NOL under IRC Section 172 or a Capital Loss under IRC Section 1212 may be filed within the three year period from the due date of the return ( for the taxable year of the NOL or Capital Loss which results in such carryback) plus the period granted for any extension of time to file for the year in which the NOL or Capital Loss is incurred. See IRC Section 6511(d)(2).

Note:  The three year period runs from the extended return due date regardless of when the return is actually filed. The three year period may be extended through a consent to extend the period of limitations on assessment. See IRC Section 6511(c).

Note:  For purposes of IRC Section 6511(d)(2), the year of the NOL is the year in which the NOL is incurred, and not the carryback year.

  1. Limitation. The overpayment must be attributable to the carryback.

  2. The special period provided in IRC 6511(d) is an additional period, rather than a substitute period, for the general period provided in IRC 6511(a) for the carryback year. See Rev. Rul. 65-281, 1965-2 C.B. 444.

  3. "Quick Refunds" of a Carryback. An application for a tentative carryback adjustment under IRC 6411 made on Form 1045, Application for Tentative Refund, or Form 1139, Corporation Application for Tentative Refund, is not a claim for credit or refund for purposes of filing a claim within the period of limitations.

 

 

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One of the things clients overlook is that filing late deprives them of various options.

With a carry back from 2015 to 2013, there is no refund and the worse is that part, or all, of the NOL gets used up without  getting any refund.

The exception would be if there was tax still due on  the 2013, or if the tax had been paid within the last two years.  

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35 minutes ago, Max W said:

One of the things clients overlook is that filing late deprives them of various options.

With a carry back from 2015 to 2013, there is no refund and the worse is that part, or all, of the NOL gets used up without  getting any refund.

The exception would be if there was tax still due on  the 2013, or if the tax had been paid within the last two years.  

Max is giving the general rule for claims for refund or credit on amended returns under sec 6511(a) and (b)(2) or (c), but there is a special rule under 6511(d)(2)(A) that allows the claim for refund or credit if it is attributable to carryback of an NOL or capital loss.

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(2) Special period of limitation with respect to net operating loss or capital loss carrybacks

(A) Period of limitation

If the claim for credit or refund relates to an overpayment attributable to a net operating loss carryback or a capital loss carryback, in lieu of the 3-year period of limitation prescribed in subsection (a), the period shall be that period which ends 3 years after the time prescribed by law for filing the return (including extensions thereof) for the taxable year of the net operating loss or net capital loss which results in such carryback, or the period prescribed in subsection (c) in respect of such taxable year, whichever expires later. In the case of such a claim, the amount of the credit or refund may exceed the portion of the tax paid within the period provided in subsection (b)(2) or (c), whichever is applicable, to the extent of the amount of the overpayment attributable to such carryback.

It must be filed on 1040X to be a valid claim at this point because using the 1045 alone would be a tentative filing that has a shorter SOL, and Edsel's client is already well beyond that date.

Edited by jklcpa
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23 minutes ago, Max W said:

2013 was due, with ext., Oct 15, 2014.   A 1040X would have had to be filed by Oct, 15, 2017, to have any refund.

Max, no, it is 3 years from the due date including extensions for the year of the loss.  Again, from sec 6511(d)(2)(A):

12 hours ago, jklcpa said:

(2) Special period of limitation with respect to net operating loss or capital loss carrybacks

(A) Period of limitation

If the claim for credit or refund relates to an overpayment attributable to a net operating loss carryback or a capital loss carryback, in lieu of the 3-year period of limitation prescribed in subsection (a), the period shall be that period which ends 3 years after the time prescribed by law for filing the return (including extensions thereof) for the taxable year of the net operating loss or net capital loss which results in such carryback, or the period prescribed in subsection (c) in respect of such taxable year, whichever expires later. In the case of such a claim, the amount of the credit or refund may exceed the portion of the tax paid within the period provided in subsection (b)(2) or (c), whichever is applicable, to the extent of the amount of the overpayment attributable to such carryback.

 

That same rule is also expressed in the section I first quoted from the IRS manual.  Please see #1 below:
 

Quote

25.6.1.10.2.8.1 (04-01-2007)

Net Operating Loss (NOL) Carryback or Capital Loss Carryback

  1. A claim for credit or refund based on the carryback of an NOL under IRC Section 172 or a Capital Loss under IRC Section 1212 may be filed within the three year period from the due date of the return ( for the taxable year of the NOL or Capital Loss which results in such carryback) plus the period granted for any extension of time to file for the year in which the NOL or Capital Loss is incurred. See IRC Section 6511(d)(2).

    Note:  The three year period runs from the extended return due date regardless of when the return is actually filed. The three year period may be extended through a consent to extend the period of limitations on assessment. See IRC Section 6511(c).

Note:  For purposes of IRC Section 6511(d)(2), the year of the NOL is the year in which the NOL is incurred, and not the carryback year.

  1. Limitation. The overpayment must be attributable to the carryback.

    The special period provided in IRC 6511(d) is an additional period, rather than a substitute period, for the general period provided in IRC 6511(a) for the carryback year. See Rev. Rul. 65-281, 1965-2 C.B. 444.

  2. The special period provided in IRC 6511(d) is an additional period, rather than a substitute period, for the general period provided in IRC 6511(a) for the carryback year. See Rev. Rul. 65-281, 1965-2 C.B. 444.

  3. "Quick Refunds" of a Carryback. An application for a tentative carryback adjustment under IRC 6411 made on Form 1045, Application for Tentative Refund, or Form 1139, Corporation Application for Tentative Refund, is not a claim for credit or refund for purposes of filing a claim within the period of limitations.

 

Edited by jklcpa
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