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Some Clients can't be helped - I feel bad


BulldogTom

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Client has not been a good boy with the IRS or the state of CA.   Worked out a payment plan with CA.   Working on a payment plan with IRS.   Told him to keep his PR Tax payments up.  Told him multiple times.  He did not listen.   CA defaulted his agreement for untimely PR tax payments and swooped in and cleaned out all his bank accounts.   No money to pay the mortgage.  

There is only so much we can do, but damn, this makes me feel bad.

Tom
Modesto, CA

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In my experience, very few taxpayers with similar problems have the fortitude to make the lifestyle spending changes necessary to pay off debts of this magnitude,

which is the very reason they ended up in big trouble in the first place. I have reached the point in my life where I really have no interest in working with clients with these problems.

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If it were my client, I would charge this person a nice fee to get the levy modified, if it is not too late.  The bank has to hold the money for 10 days.  (if it is the IRS, 21 days).

He needs money for operating expenses  and maybe money to  pay rent/mortgage.   Of course he would have to come with the money to pay my fee.  Credit cards are fine.

EDD and the FTB will usually modify the levy to take just the missing  installment payments plus one more.  

 

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When I identify clients with financial problems after seeing their documents and the interview,  I will suggest a financial planning session after tax season, before they get into trouble.  Some take me up on it and if they use the advice they can get their cash flow and budgeting (a new term to them) under control.  Also they are happy when I find any deficiencies in their insurance policies, show them how to reconcile a checkbook, set up auto pays, and give them a primer on estate planning.  I'll monitor them and find that they do well when they take this seriously.   

 

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19 hours ago, cbslee said:

In my experience, very few taxpayers with similar problems have the fortitude to make the lifestyle spending changes necessary to pay off debts of this magnitude,

which is the very reason they ended up in big trouble in the first place. I have reached the point in my life where I really have no interest in working with clients with these problems.

I hear you and I'm with you on this matter.

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21 years now, and I have yet to have a single client make the life, financial, changes needed to solve their problems.  Nor have I had even one, follow my suggestions in this area, or estimated payments.

I stopped having compassion.  File the returns, collect their payment for my services (which increases 10% each year).  Nod and smile as they lament about their financial woes.  File their information.  Wait for the call that they are filing bankruptcy.  Charge extremely well for my assistance with that.  Sleep well at night.

You can't fix stupid, or the unwilling.

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@BulldogTom I do feel for you.  One of the hardest things I had to learn - and I have to keep RE-learning it every couple of years, is that I can not allow myself to care more about my clients' finances and tax situations than they care themselves.  We know how to fix it - if only they will listen!  Their lives could be so much better!  But many if not most if not all will not listen.  

So instead, concentrate on "Let not your hearts be troubled."  Note that at some level we allow ourselves to get all worked up; stop it.  (Lecturing myself at least as much, maybe more, than you.)  You did your best; the client screwed up and it's not your fault.  Do not let your heart be troubled.  And charge him a big fat fee - up front - if you take on trying to get even some of the mess fixed.

Plus hugs to you.  Not Rita hugs!  Sympathy hugs.

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On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:48 PM, BulldogTom said:

Client has not been a good boy...Worked out a payment plan...Told him to keep...Tax payments up...multiple times...did not listen...defaulted...swooped in...cleaned out all... 

There is only so much we can do, but damn, this makes me feel bad.

This, plus cbslee and Jack's experiences pretty well match mine except that a few years ago I had a good thing going straightening out state stuff (always had better luck with AR than feds).  Had a great state's Taxpayer Advocate (first-name basis) & she had some of that scarce "compassion"-a T/P's wife was going off the rails mentally & she offered to slash his old $11K & change bill to $8K flat if we mailed cashier's check and dr. bills within four days-we did and she did. Some interest deleted (never been able to get IRS to do that). She's now retired and replaced by some nitwit (government service-the last refuge of the incompetent) whose mantra is "They need to pay their taxes!" Well, hell; I know that.     

But, as Jack said, "you can't fix stupid."  Last case I had with my "good Advocate" the T/P (in exotic animal biz-sold 2-3 mass loads per week at $3k per-can't figure WHAT he did with all the dough) called and said he owed AR about $2,500 (had stacks of letters) and did I think maybe they'd go away if he did nothing.  Told him it was possible but not likely (states are generally hungry).  Six months later he calls and says deputy sheriff is loading his truck on a flatbed-what to do?  Called my rescuer and she said "Okay, tell him if he will go to the Swampbog county seat right now, pay the sheriff $235 collection and deputy fee, then I will call and stop the collection.  Then, if he brings you a $500 cashier's check tomorrow; call me saying you have it in hand and are mailing it, and I will set him up on a payment plan."  Next day I called him - relative said they hauled off his truck.  I haven't seen or heard from him since.  No money on that one either, so I swore off.

Post-mortem on first T/P-he should have stuck with derailed wife-while nuts, she could figure payroll; divorced her and last year wife #2 paid $1,000 for some guy to drive 50 miles, put up their Xmas lights, come back, take down, and store 'em for her 'til next year & another $1.000.   

 

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