FYI EXPLOSION

[mcb39]

Just arrived at vacation home on Friday afternoon.  Long awaited R and R.  We were waiting for repair man for WiFi Thermostat.  Had just finished unpacking and I plugged in my 17 inch laptop.  We were standing about 4 feet away and heard what sounded like a shotgun blast.  Turned around to find my computer and anything near it completely engulfed in two to three foot flames.  My husband grabbed a towel and smothered some of the flames and out the door with it onto the lawn.  The battery had exploded.  I still haven't gotten over the shock.  There went my 17" Win 10 Acer laptop that I loved.

Just be aware to never walk away from your laptop when it is plugged in.  We don't know what happened or why, but we could have lost our house if we had not been right there when it happened.  I am thankful and sad at the same time.  I could have been badly burned or whatever.  Hot, flying plastic is imbedded in a few things.  

Of course, Homeowners insurance is $1000 deductible.  Hardly pays to file a claim.  Just want you all to be AWARE!

[Lee B]

Wow, I am glad it wasn't worse!

There have been  stories in the news about fires started by lithium batteries in electric bicycles and scooters exploding.

[Margaret CPA in OH]

How scary!  So thankful it wasn't worse for you, bad enough as it already is.

I just returned from my dive trip to Papua New Guinea and had to remember to have all dive light and other lithium batteries in my carry on luggage.  Your experience drives home the point about the dangers of these potential battery fires.  Good reminder about laptop batteries, I would not have considered that but will now.  And remind my husband who leaves his on all the time.  Yikes!  Now to check everything else that might have lithium batteries.

Try to enjoy the rest of your  vacation!

[Lee B]

Supposedly you need to look for signs of battery seeping and or swelling. Not sure how you do that in a laptop?

[Abby Normal]

New types of batteries are coming, but in the mean time:

1. Don't leave batteries charging overnight or all the time.
2. Never charge your battery to 100%. Keep it between 15%-85%.
3. Get a cooler for your laptop.
4. If your laptop battery is easily removable, only put your laptop battery in when you travel.

I haven't had a laptop in a long time, so I'm not aware of any changes that have been made recently.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

24 minutes ago, Abby Normal said:

New types of batteries are coming, but in the mean time:

1. Don't leave batteries charging overnight or all the time.
2. Never charge your battery to 100%. Keep it between 15%-85%.
3. Get a cooler for your laptop.
4. If your laptop battery is easily removable, only put your laptop battery in when you travel.

I haven't had a laptop in a long time, so I'm not aware of any changes that have been made recently.

Tech and chemical makeup is evolving fast.

1.  Not always true. Surface machines, for example, have a mode which is designed for constant plug in.  It is a hardware/software setting which stops power from reaching the BMS at certain levels (such as 5-% or 80%).  It was originally called Kiosk Mode.  Same thing for anyone using a battery backup - they do not get turned off.

2.  LFP batteries can and should be regularly 100% charged.  At least a couple times a month is best for the BMS.  There is little degradation to be saved bu the old 20-80% "rule" and the BMS cannot stay accurately calibrated if not at 100% on a regular basis.

3.  Always true.  Not so much a physical cooling pad or fan, but use the software settings to actively cool and/or passive cool with a lower CPU load.

4.  To me, silly.  Why?  The advantage of a laptop is to have a built in battery backup.  Degradation is most current batteries is as much calendar as it is usage.

Where I am coming from is someone who uses portable computers exclusively.  Also rely on LFP batts for our RV.  Our Tesla also has the LFP formula.  LFO is the easiest on the user, just charge as often as desired, and use it.  Not all batts are LFP, so you do need to know what the chemistry of your batts are, and act accordingly (Tesla has many non LFP models, which should follow the 20-80% "rule").  Companies like Battleborn (RV and similar battery supplier) are a GREAT resource.

Our RV has LFP batts, which are always kept at 100% when parked.  It is our "lifeboat".  After roughly 18 months from manufacturer, they have lost less than 3% capacity, which can be contributed to calendar effect.  Granted, I have the ability to keep them at the ideal voltage through an external BMS, but it can be safely done (the always at 100%).

 

 

[mcb39]

Thank you all for your concerns and comments.  Since I am on vacation for this week, I am down to my Surface Pro 3 which has had very little use and is a little hard to get used to, though I do have the keyboard.  Nevertheless, I am a little afraid to even turn it on.  The laptop that blew was in perfect condition with not a lot of hours on it.  There were no signs of warping, leaking or swelling.  My Granddaughter tells me that her office is constantly watching for warpage of keyboards as the first sign.  When I get home, I will try to send you pictures of the junk.

[Randall]

How old was the laptop Acer?

[BrewOne]

Hi Marilyn,

Wonder if it was the house wiring--they were having issues obviously? I have a three-year old Acer laptop and I've never worried about keeping it plugged in, but I do have a surge protector on it.  And I wonder how common this is with laptops?  I know a lot of the new batteries have had problems while recharging.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

My experience is batt failure when using a knock off replacement, or early lion batts. On both cases, it was likely thermal runaway, which is the internal bms failing to prevent overheating. Charger and power incoming should never cause an issue with the batt as the bms should be the batt manager.

I looked into building my own system for our rv, same as people also do for off grid. The key was always the bms. For prebuilt batts, the off grid experts (who post tear downs) always key on the bms. The cells themselves are only made in a couple of places and the concern is first or second quality, and volt matching. (CATL is the biggest and arguably best tech at present.)

For a laptop, secondary monitoring is tougher. But, the surface line has charge limits, with the current being the new norm of 80%.  This setting is before the bms as far as I know so it serves as a second safety  

 

[Abby Normal]

https://www.androidauthority.com/maximize-battery-life-882395/

[mcb39]

10 hours ago, Randall said:

How old was the laptop Acer?

6 years old but in top condition.

[mcb39]

8 hours ago, BrewOne said:

Hi Marilyn,

Wonder if it was the house wiring--they were having issues obviously? I have a three-year old Acer laptop and I've never worried about keeping it plugged in, but I do have a surge protector on it.  And I wonder how common this is with laptops?  I know a lot of the new batteries have had problems while recharging.

I was plugged into a surge protector.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

16 hours ago, Abby Normal said:

https://www.androidauthority.com/maximize-battery-life-882395/

Could be true for some android phones depending on their batt chemistry and bms. The last time I used an android daily, there was an app which limited max charge to 80% so there was no issue with leaving connected even for old chemistry. (Nothing against android at all. I elected to change because it is very difficult to get a truly unlocked android and set it up for two line / two carrier use.)

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

18 hours ago, mcb39 said:

6 years old but in top condition.

Probable failed/damaged battery; thermal runaway (can think of it as being like a short). Tech is much better now than a design which is likely 7+ years old. 

[BulldogTom]

On 5/16/2023 at 8:05 PM, mcb39 said:

I was plugged into a surge protector.

Interesting.   I have a Dell laptop and when I plug the computer in to a surge protector, I get a warning about my power supply.   When I plug into the wall outlet, there is no warning.   I wonder if there is some kind of surge protection built into our power cords and when you put a second surge protector on it it messes with the current. (I never understood why I needed that black box on the cord). 

Just a tech ignorant accountant talking out loud.

Tom
Longview, TX

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

Try a different protector.  They do wear out.  Also, use a quality protector, maybe not a power strip for "$9.99" (if that is the case).

The power "wart".  It is generally an AC/DC converter, going from AC to what seems now to usually be 19v DC.  DC is likely better for the equipment, and probably mirrors (close enough) what the battery pack provides as nominal voltage.  Also makes it VERY easy to support US and EUR power sources without altering the actual product.  In many cases, they provide a simple wall adapter as the wart can manage the different incoming power.

For instance, in our RV, I added a TV.  Since I want to be able to run it off battery, and I know how the power wart functions, I cut off the wart, and wired the TV directly into a step up converter.  Did the same for a dehumidifier which runs when we are home.  The benefit is the items run off the 12v system, so battery, but if plugged into AC or running the gen, they still run.

To go off the ledge, since the ladies in our family like to use their hair irons and dryers, even when not plugged in, and their pod coffee maker, I upgraded to LFP batteries and installed a quality inverter. so they can power up even when we have no AC connection and cannot run the generator.  Of course, these things are built in to high dollar RV's, but we don;t have a long enough space at home to keep one of those monsters.

[BulldogTom]

1 hour ago, Medlin Software, Dennis said:

 a power strip for "$9.99" (if that is the case).

The power "wart".  It is generally an AC/DC converter, going from AC to what seems now to usually be 19v DC. 

It is a $9.99 power strip.   Gives me 6 outlets for my 10 key, computer speakers, etc.   The non-essential stuff that I don't plug into the battery backup.

Thanks for the info.   Makes sense that I need a converter, just never thought it through.

Tom
Longview, TX

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

DC is probably cleaner and more stable for the devices, but that is beyond any recent knowledge for me. 

[WITAXLADY]

Dear Marilyn,

So sorry to hear that!

So glad you were able to get away and hope that did not spoil the R/R too much!

Best,

D In WI

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

Cruise lines generally allow power strips, as long as they do NOT have surge protectors. I have not looked at the science behind the restriction.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:18 PM, Medlin Software, Dennis said:

Cruise lines generally allow power strips, as long as they do NOT have surge protectors. I have not looked at the science behind the restriction.

Cruise ships feed 60v to each prong, power strips would cause issues. 

[mcb39]

After 4 years in the Navy, my husband would never go on a cruise.

[mcb39]

FYI Addendum:  My IT person took the computer home.  He pried it open and removed the battery which had exploded.  He took it outside on the concrete, plugged it in and the computer works perfectly.  He was shocked that everything survived.  I had already ordered a replacement and have gifted the survivor to him.  Acer all the way.  Sometimes a tragic event has a happy ending.

[Lion EA]

Wow!