ATX Renewal

[Yardley CPA]

I spoke with my "personal representative" last night and renewed the 1040 Office Package. Price came out to a total of $835. I thought the 2010 package was relatively stable with no real issues. I haven't shopped around at all, but I can't imagine there are that many vendors that offer as robust a package as ATX for this type of price. I've been a happy user for many years and I hope that continues.

[Eli]

I spoke with my "personal representative" last night and renewed the 1040 Office Package. Price came out to a total of $835. I thought the 2010 package was relatively stable with no real issues. I haven't shopped around at all, but I can't imagine there are that many vendors that offer as robust a package as ATX for this type of price. I've been a happy user for many years and I hope that continues.

Did the 1040 Office package come with unlimited efiling for 2010?

Eli

[Yardley CPA]

Did the 1040 Office package come with unlimited efiling for 2010?

Eli

Not the 2010 edition. However, my renewal for 2011 comes with unlimited efiling.

[AnnieR]

Not the 2010 edition. However, my renewal for 2011 comes with unlimited efiling.

Looks like I'll have to go back to 1040 Office. Sure hated having to purchase Max to get the unlimited e-file. I didn't install at least half of the program because I didn't need it. It was definitely a waste of resources.

AnnieR

[Crank]

I went with TRX (TaxWorks) for the 2010 filing season after using ATX/Saber since the mid 90's. ATX just sent me a renewal offer for up to 30% off of all packages. The 1040 Office is $639 ($799 regularly) but I already renewed with TRX for $299 for a package similar to the "ATX Total Tax & Accounting Office" ($2,599).

The conversion to TRX was much easier than I had anticipated and learning the program was fairly easy but its not forms based. I got tired of ATX raising the prices every year while offering less. TRX also locks the price at $299 every year if you order by May 1st.

Just my 2 cents.

[clay]

I ususally renew with ATX in May each year but this time I am going to wait and first try out some alternatives to ATX.

I definitely want to stay with forms based input so Drake will not work for me although it seems like a great program.

I just received the 2010 Proseries and I will see how it works by keying in some of my returns from 2010.

They guarantee their price for 3 years and the conversion process supposedly is very good. Price is $1084 with all states, efiling and just the 1040, no partnerships, trusta, etc, which is fine for my business.

Why change? Well, I like ATX, I have been with them for over 10 years, but if I can find a program that will automatically load all the necessary forms (eg. I am from NY and when I open certain forms that require the 201-ATT, I have to open the ATT, the program will not do it automatically) and provide better worksheets, then I will consider the switch. So if the software will do some things that do not require me to review and make sure every form has opened and handles some transactions better than ATX, this saves me time, and as we know, time is money.

Any other forms based software out there that people like?

[Jack from Ohio]

With our firm having 10 preparers during season and 5 year round as well as the fact that we do 2,900+ returns every year, the obstacles for changing are HUGE. We have used ATX since 2002.

1. Learning curve for 10 people. After 9 years of using the program, we have become very familiar with its quirks and how it works. I have also become intimately familiar with how to fix all the "glitches" that happen regularly.

2. Conversion. I have yet to hear of a program that accurately and properly converts returns. We do thousands of return with depreciation and assets. This is one area that is always a problem, and and checking every detail of 2,900 returns is a monumental task.

3. None of the programs we have demo'd are as form based, in my mind the most natural method, as it all comes down to what is or is not on the actual forms.

4. Even with all the networking hassles we had this year, and next year will probably be the same, the "costs" of changing are far higher than the dollars saved.

[joanmcq]

I looked at Drake last year, and was impressed, but when I tried to do my UK client's return, I could not add a 5471 to an individual return since it is a 'business' form. The Drake rep confirmed it couldn't be done. Adding a CA 568, necessary for an SMLLC in CA was impossible as well. I also tested adding a CA return to this client just to see how CA worked with the program and found a few glitches (it added back the foreign income exclusion twice and I couldn't get it out).

I had the same problem with older years in ATX where I only bought the 1040 package (I did back filing of quite a few years for this client), but I love the way MAX lets you add any form necessary to a return. So I am very likely to renew with ATX again.

[Mike D]

I must admit that if I were preparing 2,900 returns my last choice for software would be ATX. I would look for a more robust feature rich program that saves time and money.

I just attended a Drake seminar yesterday and most of the participants were using Ultratax, Proseries, LaCerte, etc. I discussed TRX and TaxWorks for $299 and everyone thought that I was either lying and/or crazy. Everyone was looking for a cheaper solution as prices were extremely high for these other programs.

I am ecstatic that I switched from ATX when I did and now have much better software for $299 per year.

Mike Dubin CPA

[Jack from Ohio]

What would be your answer to the reasons I stated for not changing?

[Mike D]

I can certainly understand your complacency with ATX.

I am not privy to the details of your practice so I can only assume that you prepare some multi state returns? In addition you admit that you are preparing many complex returns that include depreciation. With these facts alone I am almost certain that you are spending many additional hours using work arounds instead of having the software do it for you?

Before my retirement as a CFO for a major labor union in NYC I managed a staff of 25 professionals. We were saddled with the Y2K doom and gloom information technology issues and decided to convert all of our systems at that time. I was given the mission to convert all of the accounting and financial systems for the union, welfare fund and other related entities. This entailed searching for the right solution, managing the conversion process, operating multiple systems until the switchover, testing, and finally keeping the costs under control.

It took approx. one year of four of my staff members plus me to accomplish this task. A few months after completion we could see the magnitude of features that were available to us. Reporting reel time, significant internal control improvements, enormous monetary savings due to bringing in house many tasks that were required to be outsourced with the old systems, efficiency in work flows, and finally a much happier and contented staff.

Sure the undertaking was enormous and time consuming, although the learning curve was much shorter. This was the smartest decision that I made during my 31 year career and the benefits are still being reaped.

In addition I as well as many of our colleagues switched to TRX Tax Works software for 2010 and had very few issues with the conversion process and learning curve. True it is not forms based but does provide almost instant preview of the forms in progress. I prepare about 50 returns some of which are quite complex so I can’t speak for you preparing over 2,900. Of these returns I prepare about 10 with multiple states and the difference from ATX to Tax Works is enormous.

Using ATX I was required to enter the secondary states taxable income as well as the actual income taxes paid, which for the record is not consistent in every state. Should I be required to change and/or edit these returns I would once again be required to reenter the new data manually. Using Tax Works I simply entered the data on the secondary states and all of the information flowed without incident to the primary states accurately 100% of the time.

Should you be preparing an inordinate number of these multi state type returns, this software for instance would be far worth the conversion and learning curve efforts by you. The time, effort and finally, chance of error, saved would result in real dollars by potentially requiring less staff, having the ability to prepare additional returns within the same time horizons, etc.

I am certain that many other software products perform as well as Tax Works and for your type of practice may even be a better fit.

In conclusion, I can't promise you that this will be as good as it was for me, however remaining with an antiquated, cumbersome, feature poor software product that gets more expensive every year while offering less free features for example, the asset manager, may not be the best long term solution to your continued success.

Best of luck.

Mike Dubin CPA

[joanmcq]

I do some mulit-state returns, and haven't had that issue in years. You are comparing a 10 year old ATX program with what is available now. I've only used TaxWorks during the years I did VITA, which was as long ago as you've had experience with ATX, but I didn't like many of the aspects of that program. Can it add what are commonly considered 'business' forms to an individual return (the issue I raised above with Drake?).

[Mike D]

I beg to differ with you. I have used ATX for 7 years through and including 2009. I have encountered the same issues with all multi state returns that I have prepared over the years.

Are you stating that once you enter the data required on the secondary state you have in fact completed all of the primary states returns without making any additional edits as I have indicated?

If so, please demonstrate for me as I must have missed something along the way.

Thanks

Mike Dubin CPA

[Jack from Ohio]

I can certainly understand your complacency with ATX.

I am not privy to the details of your practice so I can only assume that you prepare some multi state returns? In addition you admit that you are preparing many complex returns that include depreciation. With these facts alone I am almost certain that you are spending many additional hours using work arounds instead of having the software do it for you?

Before my retirement as a CFO for a major labor union in NYC I managed a staff of 25 professionals. We were saddled with the Y2K doom and gloom information technology issues and decided to convert all of our systems at that time. I was given the mission to convert all of the accounting and financial systems for the union, welfare fund and other related entities. This entailed searching for the right solution, managing the conversion process, operating multiple systems until the switchover, testing, and finally keeping the costs under control.

It took approx. one year of four of my staff members plus me to accomplish this task. A few months after completion we could see the magnitude of features that were available to us. Reporting reel time, significant internal control improvements, enormous monetary savings due to bringing in house many tasks that were required to be outsourced with the old systems, efficiency in work flows, and finally a much happier and contented staff.

Sure the undertaking was enormous and time consuming, although the learning curve was much shorter. This was the smartest decision that I made during my 31 year career and the benefits are still being reaped.

In addition I as well as many of our colleagues switched to TRX Tax Works software for 2010 and had very few issues with the conversion process and learning curve. True it is not forms based but does provide almost instant preview of the forms in progress. I prepare about 50 returns some of which are quite complex so I can't speak for you preparing over 2,900. Of these returns I prepare about 10 with multiple states and the difference from ATX to Tax Works is enormous.

Using ATX I was required to enter the secondary states taxable income as well as the actual income taxes paid, which for the record is not consistent in every state. Should I be required to change and/or edit these returns I would once again be required to reenter the new data manually. Using Tax Works I simply entered the data on the secondary states and all of the information flowed without incident to the primary states accurately 100% of the time.

Should you be preparing an inordinate number of these multi state type returns, this software for instance would be far worth the conversion and learning curve efforts by you. The time, effort and finally, chance of error, saved would result in real dollars by potentially requiring less staff, having the ability to prepare additional returns within the same time horizons, etc.

I am certain that many other software products perform as well as Tax Works and for your type of practice may even be a better fit.

In conclusion, I can't promise you that this will be as good as it was for me, however remaining with an antiquated, cumbersome, feature poor software product that gets more expensive every year while offering less free features for example, the asset manager, may not be the best long term solution to your continued success.

Best of luck.

Mike Dubin CPA

Quite a well written response that did not address a single issue I mentioned, and then went on to "assume" issues that we were dealing with.

We do returns from all 50 states and 3 territories. We do not have the multi-state issues you speak of. I would say that we have 500-600 multi-state returns. Our staff is very up to date with information and training about states and how they all interact. We have very few "work arounds" as you describe with our complex returns. This comes from 9 years of experience with the software.

Information and processes from 12+ years ago are not relevant today.

Still waiting on answers to how you would address the issues I mentioned.

[Mike D]

Sorry you feel that way.

I thought that my responses were clear and concise and directly related to your issues.

Evidently you are convinced that ATX works well for you and have no intentions to change.

That should conclude this dialogue.

Mike Dubin CPA

[Catherine]

The big weakness with ATX that I find every year is with the Massachusetts returns. Massachusetts has some oddities that ATX _never_ gets right and that _always_ need over-rides. (And yes, I've reported these items year after year.)

1. MA deduction for social security tax paid is ONLY for MA-source wages. This must always be adjusted manually, even when the income is clearly coded as being sourced out-of-state (for non-resident and part-year resident returns).

2. MA 1099-HC (the health insurance forms from RomneyCare) -- the penalty pages not only don't calculate correctly, they don't calculate AT ALL. Neither are the supporting worksheets' tables available through ATX; I have to get them as pdf's from the MassDOR site. Yet ANY entry on ANY of those pages requires an over-ride. If you're not going to include the info, that's one thing - but to make me over-ride the _nothing_ that has been "provided"??

3. MA multi-state income issues: some income is subject to taxation in multiple states. The Mass forms do not allow the (mandatory!) e-filing if total taxable income to all states is greater than the Massachusetts taxable income. Happens with just about every multi-state return. This may be a MassDOR problem rather than an ATX problem, though.

There are another half-dozen regular annoyances. If I could find a forms-based package that addressed these chronic Mass problems, I would be strongly tempted to switch.

[Crank]

The only comment that I would like to add is that, for me, forms based wasn't as big of issue that I had thought or made it out to be. Although I only handle about 100+ returns with a handfull of multi-state's. TRX worked-out fine but I did have some issues, although minor, as I did with ATX. Everyone's situation is different and the user has to be comfortable with what they deem to be important. But, its always nice to have options and the input of other users.

Oh and Mike, I too dealt with the Y2K "non-event" as a controller of a mid-sized financial company. While we were adequately prepared for what could have happened, in my opinion, is was over-blown and over-meeting to death because of the hysteria/hype.

[joanmcq]

Most of mine have CA with other states. No, the wages don't flow from the code indicated on the W-2, which is great when the W-2s are incorrect, which has been the case with a lot of my multi-states. I don't know of any software that would handle a NY mulit-state correctly without additional entries since ALL NY W-2s have the same NY income as federal. My last MA multi-state was done a few years ago, but the guy was a bona-fide resident of FL and his company was issuing the W-2s incorrectly.

Software is no substitute for a good preparer.

[mcb39]

Software is no substitute for a good preparer........You cannot say that often enough. I just finished amending a 2009 return for a Wisconsin resident and client who had done work in two other states. His W2's were correct. The tax return was not. One of the states has reciprocity with Wisconsin. That part was OK. The other state does not and had the proper amount of income broken away and taxed. Hence a tax return for Iowa. It so happens that Wis, as I would imagine many other residential states might, has a credit for taxes paid to another State which is calculated on a Wi Form OS. This is because a full year resident's entire income is taxable to Wi. In other words, tax paid to two states for the same income. The Preparer totally missed this and probably knows nothing about it. In addition, she attributed Wi Unemployment Income to Iowa; making the Iowa return incorrect. Instead of oweing Iowa money and a penalty, which they paid; they should have gotten a refund.

So with the Wisconsin credit of over $600 and the Iowa payback of $200, I thought these were some fairly serious errors. Am not claiming to know it all and am sure that I do not. However, I do a lot of research and I am not above telling a client when something is beyond my realm of knowledge. I think that the ATX software is excellent, but agree with Joan that the Preparer HAS to know what goes where and why it does. If something is not where I know it should be, what did I do or not do to cause the glitch?

[clay]

I agree software is no substitute for a good preparer.

But I view the software as my "assistant", and if I can find a software that does a better job than ATX, I will consider switching.

It would be like finding a better assistant and I am willing to pay more for a more experienced, helpful and useful assistant.