Chowdahead

I am working on the return for a new client who has a Home Daycare. Last year's preparer put the cost of food and snacks purchased for the daycare under Costs of Goods Sold in the back of the Sch C.

I thought this was odd. I was under the impression that foods and snacks were calculated on a per diem basis, which was $3.74 per day for breakfast and lunch (I haven't looked it up yet to verify). I thought "Cost of Goods Sold" applied mostly to retailers.

Seemed odd because she is not "selling the food" to the kids. It's included as part of her services. However, the rest of the return is pretty much by the book and this is the second return I have seen like this in 2013 so that made me question if it's actually accurate.

Any thoughts from the forum?

Thanks I will extend if necessary but hopefully not necessary since I am planning on working Sunday to get through it all.

I have maybe half a dozen returns that are getting refunds and I don't have them high on my priority list because I have another dozen that will have tax due.

Does the April 15 deadline really matter to a taxpayer who is getting a refund? Acording to the IRS website, returns with a refund due must be filed within 3 years of the tax year filing date. And failure-to-file penalties are assesed on tax due returns.

So barring an unforseen audit or unmet chalenge to one of the refundable credits, these taxpayers should see no ill effect by filing a few days after the 15th, correct?

Stress is building....

Have a client files MFJ who neglected to tell me she is in default of a student loan. Of course the IRS offset her refund.

Now she and her husband would like to see if I can file an amendment with an injured spouse claim to see if some of the refund can be recovered.

I have filed injured spouse claims with original returns before, but never as the sole reason for an amendment.

Can this even be done? I'm thinking that once the IRS has sent the money to the loan creditor, that money isn't come back to the client from the IRS.

Although she may be confused and it may be the student loan creditor or Financial Management Systems that is requesting the injured spouse form... I need to try to clarify with the client.

But is an amendment even possible for claiming injured spouse?

Will the IRS direct deposit a 1040X refund into the client's same bank account that is on their original return?

I see no fields for bank info on the 1040X.

Or will the IRS mail the check to the TP address in 6-8 weeks?

Thanks for the responses. I am working on this tonight so I will see what I come up with.

At least all the information you need stays in the corner of the screen instead of looking at the return, or clicking back to the return.

In fact, you don't even have to open the return at all.

Thanks. I just noticed that. I wish I had known about that feature 3 weeks ago lol

In efile manager, highlight the return in question. Then, at the top click support, then mouse over "Web Sites" and click on "Check IRS Refund Status." One of the neatest little tricks in ATX. Then see if the IRS has the return.

Another option is to check status on your MYATX page. Log in as admin and check efile status. Put in each SS# and you can see the status.

Is this automated for you? Because although it does take me to the IRS Refund Page, I still have to manually enter in the client SSN, Filing Status, and Refund Amount.

Would be really cool if the info was automatically populated,

I have a couple of clients who together make just over $100k a year combined. The daughter is 22 years old and goes to college full time but made just over $18K working a job at the college. She still lives at home and her parents help her pay for school.

Can she be still be considered a dependent having earned that much? I know she will take a hit on her refund but the American Opportunity Credit may prove to more valuable since she paid well over $11,000 for school last year.

My assumption that is that since the parents have a larger tax liability, the American Opportunity Credit will benefit them more than her. I have to compare. But I'd like to get some opinions on whether she could even be a dependent as it is, or need to file on her own.

Any one here certified in Bookkeeping? I am thinking about getting into it after the tax season.

Any recommendations for a good and reasonably priced online course?

What is a typical hourly rate?

If you click on the "pages and worksheets" tab at the bottom of the open return you will see the "where to file" link.

That's where I saw it. Thanks!

>>users with smooth ATX 2012 experiences are far and few between<<

Ah, but they DO exist! To me that says there is nothing inherently wrong with the program. The problem is getting it to work in all the different hardware, software, and office environments of users. Tech support and customer service are always very expensive, so that's where ATX looked to save money.

Lacerte has had almost daily updates since January, and is even still updating 2011 too. But they answer their phones. They can afford to.

They do exist. However, how much more standard can my hardware get? I have 2 Dell business PC that exceeds the minimum specs recommended by ATX. And I haven't had nearly the amount of serious issues others have had.

The very nature of Windows is that it runs on different many different hardware configurations, unlike Macs. Besides, this is tax software. This isn't a first-person shooter with high-end graphics needing the latest performance and drivers.

If I go down to Walmart and purchase a copy of TurboTax or TaxCut or TaxAct and install it on 100 different computers running a multitude of different hardware configurations and even versions of Windows, I bet it works accurately and stable on nearly every single one of them.

That is the difference between a stable, tested, and well-coded program compared to what ATX released for 2012.

I believe it was JohnH that pointed out not long ago that sales people are notorious for puffing up numbers. My first degree and my first career were in sales so I know for what he speaks. When you say the Drake salesperson indicated tons of ATX users have switched, you have to consider the source. Have there been a bunch? Probably. Are the indicated numbers overstated? Probably.

I would think by "tons" he means a higher than normal amount for this time of year. I would agree that a much higher than normal amount of switches to Drake have more than likely occurred this late in the game. I am basing this on the many posts I have seen in the official board indicating a switch to Drake (and other programs).

I never even mentioned to him that I am having problems with ATX. And he hasn't even bothered to follow-up my e-mail with a "Are you still interested" inquiry. So that either tells me that he is a horrendous salesperson, or he is already seeing high demand from ATX users so he is not following up on uncertain leads.

I think it would be incredibly naive for anyone to believe that ATX didn't know about these issues prior to releasing this year's software. Besides the stability issues, there are a slew of other quality control and bugs that could not have possibly gone unnoticed during testing.

I'm happy for those users on having few issues. However, according to a Drake salesperson I spoke to, he indicated they have seen tons of ATX users suddenly switching so I am guessing the users with smooth ATX 2012 experiences are far and few between.

However, I cannot believe that ATX programmers would deliberately do this. I think they were given a task with too few resources and a crappy open source database with an unrealistic deadline, and this is the result.

In ATX 2011 and countless all years prior, there used to be a convenient option under "Forms>Where to File" that would bring up the appropriate mailing address for a paper-filed return.

I can't seem to find it in 2012. I thought I had seen it a couple of weeks ago but I can't find it now.

Anyone know where it is?

I e-mailed them a 2 weeks ago and never received a response.

If it is not required to be attached to your return, you can delete it, and override the loss on Sch E INPUT sheet. Might have to do it a couple times to make it stick. I realize you did not ask about working around the form, and I am doing some assuming.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8582.pdf

Thanks. I have like 7 of these on hold. None of them have a loss carryover and they seemingly meet all of the other requirements to no need the forum so I believe I can delete it. But why is ATX requiring it if it's not technically needed?

Maybe you need someone just to answer the phones?

Yes I most certainly do. Next year I am seriously considering getting someone to do just that.

Intuit ProSeries has made the following statements on it's site regarding the refund delays and what they are doing about it with the IRS. They have promised to update their users every 3 hours with any new information. I am assuming (praying) the same information is applicable to ATX users. Here are the most recent new items:

http://accountants.intuit.com/support/tax/proseries/document.jsp?product=PROSERIES_TAX&id=INF22634&src=alert

February 13, 2013:

We understand there has been some confusion for our ProSeries customers regarding the IRS requirements around lines 22-27 in Form 8867, Paid Preparer's Earned Income Credit Checklist – an issue that is impacting many professional tax preparers. We know this is a busy time for preparers and we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this caused our customers. Our goal is to save you time during tax season, and we’re happy to report that updates to ProSeries available Feb 7th have eliminated this confusion.

We have been in contact with the IRS over the last few days to better determine any impact to you and your clients for returns filed before we updated our software. The IRS has shared that the process for any additional review of Form 8867 will be transparent to your clients. Refunds should be issued within the same timeframe, less than 21 days, per the refund guidelines provided by IRS at http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p2043en.pdf.

The IRS may request additional information directly from you regarding verification of lines 22-27, if you filed client returns prior to the software update. If so, you will receive a notice with additional instructions as to the information required and the timeframe in which you need to respond. Please respond timely to any requests from IRS, as it will help to further ensure that you avoid any penalties that may come from further review by the IRS. The IRS has a complete toolkit available for preparers regarding their EITC Compliance Program. Please visithttp://www.eitc.irs.gov/rptoolkit/compliance/.

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience you’ve experienced over the last few days.

Sincerely,

Jill Ward
Senior Vice President and General Manager, Intuit Accounting Professionals Division

Update: February 20, 2013, 1:08 PM CST:

It's after 1:00 p.m. ET and we are awaiting confirmation on new information from the IRS. We will post updates ASAP.

In the meantime, we continue to work closely with the IRS on the issues related to Form 8867 with missing information on lines 22 and 23, e-filed before February 8th. The IRS is working around the clock and making great progress processing returns with Form 8867. They are working on processing and refunding all impacted returns on a "first in, first out" basis, starting with returns filed on January 30th and then moving on to those filed in early February.

We know that the timing of your clients' refunds is extremely important. Based on the latest information available, the number of these returns being refunded by the IRS will continue to accelerate over the next several days. The IRS has stated that they plan to process all remaining affected returns that were filed between January 30 and February 7th by the end of this week.

Resolving this issue for you is our top priority. In an effort to keep you abreast of the very latest updates from the IRS, and to avoid confusion and misinformation, we will be sharing the latest information right here every three hours during business hours. Our next scheduled update will be later today at around 4:00 p.m. ET.

While we may not always have new information, we will continue to share whatever we learn with you until this issue comes to a full and complete resolution.

But here again I have to say that even if we do all the checks and rechecks, that first weeks I had check marks that kept disappearing. Now I'm finding it went much deepe than I originally thought. I opened a return that was e-file with a schedule C attached and qualified for EIC. I did the due dillegence worksheets, all 4 of them and even included some additional information on the page that isn't transmitted. I know I selected the information on the schedule C that I relied on to verify income, but now that I repopened the return all that info is missing.

Agreed. There is a growing vocal minority that are claiming they did in fact make the appropriate checks on Pg. 3 and Pg. 4 of the 8867 and those checkmarks are now blank upon opening the return after it was accepted.

So there is concern that the software was un-checking boxes erroneously, as continues to happens on other parts of the 8876 and other forms.

ATX posted the following news on it's web site yesterday:

Updated 2-19-2013 The following IRS Quick Alert was issued Feb 4 concerning Form 8867, Paid Preparer’s Earned Income Credit Checklist

ATX added a diagnostic warning Feb 5^th to alert the ERO if questions were unanswered on pages 1-4 of the 8867.

The IRS does not have business rules for information entered or not entered on Form 8867. They do not reject a return if information is missing on Form 8867, but the refund could be delayed and letters mailed to gather that missing information. Even if the 8867 is filled out completely, IRS could delay the refund for several weeks.

IRS Quick Alert: “The IRS has noticed that a large number of returns with the Form 8867, Paid Preparer’s Earned Income Credit Checklist, have incomplete information. Although the IRS will not reject a return if information is missing on Form 8867, these returns will be suspended causing a potential delay in refunds if the information is missing.

We are asking software developers and transmitters to communicate the Form 8867 information requirements through their software and other communication channels. Specifically, when Form 8867 is present in a return and Earned Income Credit is claimed, entries for lines 22, 23, 24, 25, both parts of 26, and 27 must be present. We recommend that the software ensures these lines on Form 8867 have entries in order to avoid processing delays that could impact refunds.

We also ask that you remind preparers that they could be assessed a penalty if they fail to comply with the due diligence requirements.”

Maybe an evaluation of your office practices and protocols are in order? We handle 3,000 every year and we double check every return before releasing it.

I don't deny that. But more importantly I will make sure I am not using software that hinders me.

Just curious, how much does your firm charge for a standard 1040, MFJ, 2 w-2s, with single family home (Sch a), EIC, Education Expenses?

Drake gives the 2011 for free to try out and see if you like it. I think you could prepare paper returns with it. You wouldn't be able to efile with it until you pay for their product. The PPR is $285 and includes 15 returns, then $19 for the next 70 returns. After a total of 85 returns, it can be converted to unlimited and you have to call to do this. It is unlocked after the season, so if many of the returns you prepare are going on extension or are fiscal year taxpayers that will be filed later in the year, it might be less expensive to use PPR. If you prepare a lot of returns, it is cheaper to buy the unlimited for $1495 because if you exceed 85 returns before the end of April you would pay over $1600 for the 85 returns on PPR ( $285 + 70 x $19). I went with the PPR to minimize the cash outlay while I tried it out with the hopes that ATX would get better, but I simply don't trust ATX with some of the problems others are having.

That is similar info as what the sales rep just e-mailed me. However, I didn't catch that the $285 PPR includes 15 e-files in his e-mail or on the site. I just double-checked the site and you are correct.

That makes it similar to what I was asking for anyway since I don't plan on completing more than 15 returns with it (I was willing to pay $19 per return).

Thanks for pointing that out!!

Is this happening to anyone besides me? It is torture! My shoulder is killing me. Think there is a 12.StickTheLanding coming up?

The box is actually checked but just not visible. Click any other part of the form (white space) and it will display. it's a bug in the program.

This has been my experience.

I have a client whose daughter (single, no dependents) received her check faster by mail than her mother (HH) by direct deposit. Both were filed Feb. 1.

I know this because the mother called me and she was not happy.

Cowderhead,

I like you, but what you just said is wrong. There is never an excuse for allowing a tax return to go out the door with an error that your knowledge, experience, and technical expertise should have caught. Errors happen occasionally, and there is nothing we can do about that. But expecting your software to know the client and their tax situation is unreasonable. It is our job to make sure our tools work as we tell them. We are the craftsmen, not the software.

No matter how busy I get, I still go over every line and every page on the tax return before it leaves my office. And I understand what every entry on every line represents, even the stupid questions on the 8867.

Tom

Hollister, CA

I totally agree that I am at fault. I should have checked the return form by form and line by line, and added each line up and double-checked all the totals and percentages and ratios with a calculator, and verified this all in the associated form instructions. In the end, the buck ends with me. But I am guilty with an explanation.

I have never in my short tenure preparing tax returns have seen the crush of people all filing at once at the end of January as I did this year. If ATX 2012 had been working as well ATX 2011 worked, I would have probably coped. However, every facet of this God-forsaken program this year takes 200-300% longer to do, sometimes 1000% or 2000% longer! This leads to hours and hours of unproductive time each day, and there are only 24 hours in each day.

Sure it may not seem like the fact that a return taking 2-3 minutes extra time to open is no big deal. But add that to how long it was taking the program to restart after crashing (sometimes 5-7 minutes) 10-15 times daily. Add to this the time it takes to open a return and create an e-file (6-7 minutes). Add to this printing times which varied between 30 sec to 5-10 minutes per return. Add to this the sluggish behavior of the Return Manager the filters and the sorting are all sluggish to refresh. To simply open and create 60 e-files takes me almost 2-3 hours this year. Last year it would take me 30 minutes. Even to simply Transmit and Receive Acknowledgements take upwards of 2000% longer than last year, plus the minor idiotic field entry errors that ATX used to catch and is now allowing to be e-filed only to reject from the EFC (and how about 40 MA returns that got rejected with Vendor Code invalid !!).

And let's not even get into how much time I have spent searching on this forum and on the official forum for answers because ATX Customer Support is non-existent and the ATX Knowledgebase is useless. So I have spent dozens and dozens of hours, maybe hundreds, researching solutions to problems with the software instead of preparing and double-checking returns.

I've spent 5-6 nights at the office until 2:30 A.M., and most nights have been until midnight, only to come back to work at 8 a.m. and try to catch up on the pile of dropped off returns, e-files that need to be created and sent, and state e-files that need to be created and sent because ATX didn't have my state "E-file Info Form" ready on time. I have a wife and 4-month-old daughter at home who basically haven't seen my face since 4 weeks ago.

So yeah, fault me for not manually catching EVERY SINGLE 8867 that I e-filed (ATX is still not checking "No Disabled Child" so now I still have to catch all of these as well). I plead guilty to that. But I wasn't put in the best position to succeed this year. Not by a long shot.

Am I stressed? A bit.