joelgilb

And btw, it is a Windows Product, running at the speed of a DOS product!

No more wasted resources on pretty graphical Windows screens!

Forms-based data entry is way overrated.

It takes about a half-day to get accustomed to data entry screens if the user is committed to making a change.

And data entry screens offer some advantages in several instances, especially with Schedule A - anybody do many of those?

In Drake you can switch from the data entry screen to the live form by pressing Ctrl-V, then back to the data entry screen by pressing Ctrl-E. Now how hard is that to do? To me it closely resembles a bunny-hop.

The best way to learn to use Drake is to put one of their tutorials on one screen and a return on the other. Then just let the tutorial take you through the process while you're making money. (I imagine any new software which offers decent on-line tutorials can be learned in this fashion).

As a more general comment, lots of ATX users are going to need to have a more open mind about changing vendors, either by choice or by default. But if you try to work through any new software intuitively, you are automatically going to dislike any feature you have in your present software that isn't exactly the same in the new one. Just gonna have to get past that roadblock...

John is on the money here! We both switched to Drake about the same time and not only were we both up to speed iin a day or less, we are both actually provided answers to the Drake community.

Tech Support is Unparalleled! Although I have heard that Intuit tends to answer the phones in 5+ minutes, Drakes has always answered my calls by the 3rd ring, even with the added strain on support from all the users switching to Drake.

Drake is also cheaper that Proseries, even with the deep discounts Intuit has been offering. And you are only locked into Intuit's discount prices for 5 years, then it is almost $5000, so back to searching for new software if this price is too much. No need to lock in Drake, their regular price $1495.00, $100 discount now and $1095.00 renewals.

PLUS Free Stuff!

Free Client Write-up Software similar although I am not sure if it is comparable yet to Easy Acct (Intuit), which costs $1214.oo plus an additional $179.00 for a network license. That alone is as much as the the cost of Drake.

Drake also provides for Free probably the best Document Manager bundled with a Tax Software provider (I have a standalone DM - FileCenter that I prefer though as it is still more sophisticated). Intuit charges an extra $450.00 for its DM.

Faster conversions with Drake, using software on your own PC you can convert literally in under an hour!

Drake doesn't compete with me. No TurboTax!

I believe Drake provides a FREE Website for its customers. Haven't checked the details of this one, since I have a web provider I will be keeping because of the other products I get from them, but for those that don't have a web presence, this a great way to get one, again for FREE!

Drake has a built-in Appointment Scheduler, which although I don't use, looks pretty interesting. Again FREE!

Personally I have barely been able to scratch the surface on what Drake offers for less than almost all the others.

And if you are a small office and need PPR, $285.00 gets you 15 returns with $19.00 each for additional returns.

Me, I have always been a forms based tax software before. Drake has made me a convert!

Like Joel, I've also found the Drake transition to be fairly seamless once I got through the initial part of the learning curve (by "initial learning curve" I'm referring to a few days plus some time spent watching their excellent tutorials). I think it's mainly a matter of how adaptable one is willing to be.

There are a few little things I miss from ATX, but the lightning speed and ease of use with Drake is well worth the trade-off. It also has some features and ways of manipulating data which I find far superior to ATX. Most of these features concern the process of expediting data entry, which is our greatest time killer. For example, their macros are simple to write and edit, which can save lots of time with routine entries unique to a given practice or state.

I am doing some work with ATX 2011 on one screen and Drake 2012 on the other, and I've come to notice how slow even ATX 2011 was when seeing the two side-by-side in real time. As I've said before, the "Forms-Based" data entry is way overrated IMO. Granted, the change takes a little getting used to. But how hard is it to press Ctrl-V and Ctrl-E? It really is that simple to toggle back & forth between the Form to the Data Entry in Drake, and it works even faster than I can type this.

Now if I found that my state wouldn't calculate correctly or if I had a particular class of return that wouldn't work, I'd certainly have a different opinion. But in looking at the Drake forums, I don't see any CA preparers complaining about these issues. (Or maybe they just don't have any customers in CA). And my only CA client's return worked perfectly, although it's a fairly straightforward return.

Anyhow, I'm coming around to the idea that everyone may be looking for another vendor next year, either by choice or by default. I'd suggest giving Drake a good honest evaluation, knowing that any change is going to require giving up some things and gaining others. If ATX isn't an option, there won't be much out there in this price range which still provides the selection of forms and customer support that Drake provides.

I'll also add that even though I'm now a Drake user, I'll still continue to evaluate other vendors in the off-season. I believe it is foolhardy to be locked into a single vendor with no other options. For a small practitioner like me it would be an inconvenience to be totally dependent on a single vendor, but for bigger operations it borders on business suicide. This season, ATX seems to be validating that viewpoint.

Joan:

Think John has said it all! It is really not that hard to convert to Drake or any other tax software vender for that matter. Even for a large office Jack.

As for ProSeries Pricing, due to price concessions, it is not much different in price than ATX. They have been offering 70% off the price of the software and will lock that price for 5 years!

As for macros John, wish I had time to try them. Would love to hear more of your experience here, so I can get them setup for next year.

Drake is not an answer for me. It is not suitable for my client base. ATX is the only software I've used in my practice. I've used others in jobs I've had alongside, but nothing that worked as well for me as ATX.

I didn't think so either. 13 Years with ATX and ATX thinks like me. Well until ATX 2012. But only 2 days after I made the move I was using Drake like a pro as were my staff. Everyone happy again!

But if Drake isn't your cup of tea there are other options as well. Others I keep in touch with have had similar experiences with ProSeries. Fear is not a reason to stay with a Loser.

and I forgot. Research Products?

CCH, vs kleinrock, vs others

Kleinrock's original owners now produce Parker Tax Publishing, at prices just as reasonable as the original Kleinrock.

http://www.parkertaxpublishing.com/

I use it and am very happy!

Again, BYE BYE CCH!

Now if I could just find a good and reasonably price FAM, I would be "In Like Flint"!

For those of you not old enough to remember In Like Flint - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061810/

CCH really didn't want to buy and produce a tax software, it wanted to buy a User Base! Then CCH wanted to de-bundle the parts of the software to increase revenues in the use base, like they did with the FAM. This year they were attampting to start the move to a common program with TaxWise, and a Separate program for Payroll.

Do any of you think it was a coincidence that the Payroll software was a separate module? They did this to us when they corrupted the FAM in ATX, causing many of us to have to buy the stand alone FAM. Took CCH roughly 2 years to make that move, and I bet that is the same thing they intended for Payroll this year.

They also took out the QuickBooks import link ability. Another coincidence? NOT! CCH wants us to buy its crappy Write-up software, thus creating more revenues.

They only real problem they had was trying to figure out how to discontinue the software while keeping their new user base and getting us to buy everything else. And this time CCH screwed up big time!

CCH has never been dedicated to supporting ATX or its users. They have proved this time and time again!

Now Drake on the other hand, goes out of their way to support their User Base. They have grown this year with 1000's of new users from ATX, TaxWorks and possibly TRX, yet when calling Drake's tech support someone from support still answers the phone on the 2nd or 3rd ring!

And Drake in the long run is actually cheaper than ATX, leaving enough money to purchase a subscription to software like CFS Tax Tools, CFS's Online Forms (probably one of the others resold by CFS). Laser Librarian, SuperForms, or even Intuit's Forms Software. Totally replacing all ATX with software that consistently works better than years even before ATX 2012.

Although I am not familiar with all the other tax software companies, I am sure many of them are also viable options.

So why are we all fretting about ATX? Move On!

And, this is not the first time many of us have moved on. In my career (since 1979) I have used a number of options to prepare returns. It's just software, no biggie! If CCH doesn't want to provide what we want -

BYE BYE CCH! Simple!

Just contact Kimmie and ask her to reinstate you, telling her you need the board for support, since ATX support is so overwhelmed. She will threaten a little, and tell you what you can and can't post, make you suffer a day, but she should reinstate you just like she did me.

Then I am afraid, you'll have to be more careful.

and here is what happens when you hit the link to the latest ATX update - Version 12.11!

http://www.hello-kitty-diy.net/userfiles/Daffy-Duck.gif

Using my Old Word Processor and hand held spreadsheet processor to fill out tax forms now! Much faster than ATX!

Definitely renewing early this year, just not renewing ATX!

Switched to Drake this season and going with Drake again for the 2013 season. Support is better than ATX ever was since I started with the 12-13 years ago. A tech person actually answers the phone, usually by the 3rd ring!.

Software is faster than any previous years ATX.

OK, I'll lost the thousands of forms in ATX, but there are other and better options here.

Just came to the realization that ATX 2012 problems could affect us again in 2013.

If ATX fixes the crashing and speed issues in 2013, but does not fix these same issues for 2012, those of us (myself for one) that keep the prior years return open for reference will have to deal with the CRASHING & SLOW SPEED ISSUES AGAIN, on both the server and workstations. For me this includes load times on the server of 3-6 minutes and on the workstations of as much as 10 to 15 minutes! And crashes, who knows how often.

Personally I have transferred the remaining of my clients to Drake, as this years software is so bad on my network that it is virtually unusable. I do, however, have a few completed returns in ATX 2012 that I will need to deal with later.

I for one intend to transfer those completed returns to Drake after the season is over. I suggest that anyone that switched software mid-season should do the same after our busy season is over.

To what? 13K proFX?

How about Drake or ProSeries.

I switched to Drake about 2 weeks ago (as did JohnH) and was up and running in 1 day. Conversion done in lass than an hour. Program is intuitive and FAST; makes the old ATX look like a snail.

They asked me to tone down the political stuff ....(I guess with Bobby1NJ who starts the political stuff).

Supposedly, others felt it got in the way of their frustration with ATX software and the ability to complain about it.

Of course, I learned long ago no answers come on that board. I asked and asked for a fix to my E-filing problem but NO response from anyone. So I doubt any answers come from yelling:

"Kimmie, this doesn't work" or "Kimmie, help my that thing doesn't work." Usually the reply is "I'll tell the developers, or we are working on it"

Anyway I agreed to tone it down.

When I visit that board now all I see is actor David Hedison from the Vincent Price picture "The Fly" at the very end his little head on the body of a fly stuck in a spiders web, with the spider about to eat him, yelling in his high pitched voice:

HELP ME !!! HELP MEEEEEEE !! (KIMMEE) HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

You just want to get banned like I was!

New update gives rise to new bugs too.

Complete box now unchecks itself. And if you go into one of those completed returns and an updated for exists, it could change that return after you had already efiled it, screwing up next years rollovers (should you be crazy enough to buy ATX next year). Rechecking the complete boxes does not help, because as soon as you close ATX and then reopen it it will uncheck the complete box all over again.

Workaround. Create a new custom column for the Return Manager, to indicate your returns are complete and mark it according so you can at least use it to sort your returns. AND DO NOT OPEN A COMPLETE RETURN where the complete box is not checked, recheck the box first then you should have no problem.

LITaxAdmin posted my CCH ProSystem FX comment on ATX's community for me!

I don't go over there so can't say any specifics. But we do, here, expect our members to keep it clean and reasonably polite, and I believe that makes for a board we can all be comfortable on. A post that uses HUMOR to illustrate problems is fine, especially if you avoid making it too personal. It also has the benefit of being more effective. We've had some good posts here that have used humor to get their point across,

Come on KC, did you really have to admonish me for a little joke? Isn't ATX doing that enough already?

I asked about Prosystems fx and was given a quote with a 35% discount. Product for 1,000 returns = $13K after discount.

I nearly laughed out loud at the salesperson from CCH!!!

I asked what Prosystems fx did that made it worth over 10 times as much as ATX. He rattled off some features (all of which ATX does) and I just simply, politely told him that his price was out of my budget range.

I think everyone at CCH is delusional.

Yep, Delusional!

I know ATX is small compared to Wolters Kluwer, but ATX had over 40,000 users. Now not everyone purchased the full product, but with the side products there income must be substantial:

Tax Preparation Packages
1040 $529.00 + $5.00 additional for e-files over 100

1040 Office $799

MAX® $1,249

Total Tax Office $1,779

Total Tax & Accounting $2,749

Performance Bundles
Workflow Bundle $699

Accounting Bundle $899

Research Bundle $849

Total Office Bundle$1,299

Accounting Products

Client Accounting Suite $549.00

Client Accounting Suite with Payroll $849.00

Payroll $399.00

Fixed Asset Manager $449.00

Trial Balance $269.00

Payroll Compliance Reporting $???.??

Online Research
Tax Prep Partner 1040 $249

Tax Prep Partner Standard Bundle $557


Practical Tax Expert Pro $???.??

CCH Essentials $449

IntelliConnect® ???.??

Practice Enhancers
PaperlessPLUS™ $549.00

Audit Shield® $???.??
CPE/Educ
Merchant Services

So lets just say all they make on average is the cost of the Max package . That's $1,249 * 40,0000 users = $49,960,000. Personally I think it is much more than this, possibly 2 times this or more. Would Wolters Kluwer, really want to walk away from 50 to 100 million in gross sales?

And no, I am not forgetting the HUGE 10% early renewal discount (sarcasm intended). My understanding from my rep, is that most of the users don't really take advantage of that anyway.

JOEL- you should be a lexicologist, nice word.

Maybe I am an Abecedarian.

Just a thought here:

As many of you know, if you asked, CCH would let you switch to TaxWise. But only if you asked (Dumb move on their part their, they should have just offered it).

If you demanded with more conviction, CCH gave you full access to both Taxwise and ATX (like I did).

That said, TaxWise, is barely better than ATX, and was not enough to keep me.

What they should have done is:

1. Admit their failing with ATX; and

2. Provide CCH's Premier product ProSystem FX for free this year. Then they would have had a big win. Proved they were loyal to the users and would stand behind their mistakes. They might of even got some converts to the more expensive product next year and increased their bottom line.

And really what would it have cost them? NOTHING! They already have the product.

Now I would post that on ATX's board, but would most certainly be banned again, so not ready to go there.

Are we forgetting that the software is not just broken? Tthey have removed virtually all of the enhancements that have put in the software over the years and called it an Enhancement. No more spreadsheets, no more inline formula, no more unprotecting of forms, no more customization, unwieldy print packet system (That doesn't recognize all system printers in the File Copy btw) and that obnoxious Client Communications Manager, just to name a few.

As for network installs vs stand alone installations having trouble, I help support a few of my colleagues on ATX. Friends of mine that tend to switch software when I do. Two of them are on networks and having tons of trouble, especially on the workstations, the others on single installs.

My colleagues that are on a single station install, all find that the software is much slower this year, and don't forget one of ATX's consistent problems in past years was slow speed. Other than that, one has no other problems and 2 are having major problems, including losing fixed asset detail, although less than network installs.

So it is not just that they BROKE the software, They told is a BOLD FACED LIE!

Wonder how we can trust anything from them anymore?

WTF[ing]H! (ATX'es new call sign)

Time to switch!

CCH is a big joke. Shame none of us are laughing at what they did to us.

Saying your clients should wait, really?

We have 7 weeks of season left, wait indeed!

They do not understand the business we are in. They did not understand the tax product they had? And they certainly didn't and still don't understand their customer base.

Only good news is that this year alone they must have lost millions in lost customers and internal costs. Can't wait to see how Wolters Kluwer reacts once this season is over.

SCL, I do remember when they laid everyone from ME off. ATX has never been the same since. Support that year was a joke. First year out with CCH at the helm should have been a sign.

Didn't a couple of the Maine support transfer to Georgia and then get let go shortly thereafter?

A lot of the errors seem to be because ATX has grabbed so much of your systems memory, that it is not capable of doing the various tasks.

Deleted Fields,

Deleted ERO and Preparer Info

Rollovers not working

and the list goes on.

But rebooting ATX seems to fix most of these.

So Reboot, wait 10 minutes to load the software and your client and back to work

Good thing I no longer use that piece of crap software!