ATX declines to participate

[Lee B]

According to the new issue of CPA Practice Advisor, ATX declined to participate in their annual review

of Tax Software. If ATX is going to have software for the 2013 tax year, you would think that they would want to be included ?

[rfassett]

I can't blame them. They would not rate very good for 2012. No rating is better than a bad rating. They have had enough bad publicity this year. I would not put much thought into them not participating.

[Guest Taxed]

Agree! Their back is against the wall in my opinion. The existing users will crucify them and that will scare away new users. But I am sure the survey will say ATX declined to participate and how is that going to sit with new users? It is a pickle!

[TaxCPANY]

Disagree! It won't mean jack unless we s#$%-upon users of ATX pipe the Eff up! Honestly, while I blushed when I told sales-reps (at a tax-tech trade fair), two weeks ago, that I NEVER would re-subscribe to ATX, I could not help but believe that it was 'up to' me to declare how catastrophically-AWFUL ATX had been, this past Tax Season.

It didn't 'win' me any discounts; but, after the HUGE amounts of time I lost to working-around ATX's *innumerable* problems, this Season, the only real consolation available will come from FLAMING ATX to all & sundry. I.e., it will be worth my while to letter CPA Practice Advisor "no wonder" ATX bowed-out -- honestly, I loathe ATX that much, now -- AND I don't believe that any of us should withhold our complaints to 'all the world,' about what CCH/ATX put us through, most recently.

[Guest Taxed]

I seriously doubt CPA Practice Advisor would say anything other than ATX declined to participate in the survey. Your letter will only confirm why ATX is declining to participate in the survey. They are hoping that tax preparers who have never heard of ATX issues will buy it eventually.

This fall would be telling for ATX. If they can't get enough renewals, I wonder how long CCH will throw money down a hole.

[JohnH]

The marketing side of this situation continues to look like an onion. As each layer is peeled off, there are simply more underneath. And to press the analogy, this situation would bring tears to any marketing manager's eyes.

It's fascinating to watch. I've been involved in a few near-meltdown situations and watched how the experts navigated huge marketing disasters - in this case I haven't yet figured out a viable strategy they can pursue.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

I don't think they have had enough bad publicity. All the complaining on the other board is viewed ONLY by existing paid members of ATX. To the general public and prospective new customers, it all looked like they had a few problems and fixed it all.

A big cover-up and now they can tout their new PORTEL INTO SPACE.

[rfassett]

I don't think they have had enough bad publicity. All the complaining on the other board is viewed ONLY by existing paid members of ATX. To the general public and prospective new customers, it all looked like they had a few problems and fixed it all.

A big cover-up and now they can tout their new PORTEL INTO SPACE.

There have been plenty of reports in the on-line AND print publications of the ATX woes this year. The bad publictiy has not been restricted to this and the other board.

[rfassett]

The marketing side of this situation continues to look like an onion. As each layer is peeled off, there are simply more underneath. And to press the analogy, this situation would bring tears to any marketing manager's eyes.

It's fascinating to watch. I've been involved in a few near-meltdown situations and watched how the experts navigated huge marketing disasters - in this case I haven't yet figured out a viable strategy they can pursue.

Well let's brain storm together JohnH. You are a marketing mastermind and I am a marketing mastermind wanna-be. (My first degree was in Marketing and I spent several years in sales and managing a marketing department.) This should have us wringing our hands in anticpation of the challenge. Maybe you and I should apply for the job but only if they will take us as a team. I think we could turn it around in a two year period and be heroes. First thing would be to reach out to every user, no matter what the cost (not just reach out, but communicate with each user (big big difference)), with a genuine and sincere apology and acknowledgement of the problems while showing a sense of remorse and it won't happen again mentality and explaining what is being done to be absolutely certain something like this never happens again to the users. That is the easy part. And then we would have to get on development and support and make sure that what we are telling the user is what is going to happen. I do not think growth should be the primary focus at the moment. That will come three years down the road. Right now we should be in lock down survival mode. What you think JohnH, shall we apply?

[JohnH]

FTM:

What would you do at this moment and in the following situation if you were in charge of marketing?

A prospective customer wants to demo the product. He plans to use it to prepare some of his 2012 extension returns. He already has a couple of your competitors' 2012 software and there are no problems, but he is intrigued by the "Forms-Based" approach. He is going to load it onto a networked system because he wants to simulate how he's going to work next year. He intends to make a decision in the next 30-45 days.

[JohnH]

Well let's brain storm together JohnH. You are a marketing mastermind and I am a marketing mastermind wanna-be. (My first degree was in Marketing and I spent several years in sales and managing a marketing department.) This should have us wringing our hands in anticpation of the challenge. Maybe you and I should apply for the job but only if they will take us as a team. I think we could turn it around in a two year period and be heroes. First thing would be to reach out to every user, no matter what the cost (not just reach out, but communicate with each user (big big difference)), with a genuine and sincere apology and acknowledgement of the problems while showing a sense of remorse and it won't happen again mentality and explaining what is being done to be absolutely certain something like this never happens again to the users. That is the easy part. And then we would have to get on development and support and make sure that what we are telling the user is what is going to happen. I do not think growth should be the primary focus at the moment. That will come three years down the road. Right now we should be in lock down survival mode. What you think JohnH, shall we apply?

--> And then we would have to get on development and support and make sure that what we are telling the user is what is going to happen. <--

There's no way we can get that assurance, or rely upon it if someone is foolish enough to give it to us. So anything we say will still be based on wishful thinking at best.

No sense applying. We aren't going to be hired, because we will only tell them the truth and they don't want to hear it. I agree that we are in lock down survival mode, and our biggest immediate problem is that our overseas masters are interested only in growth.

[rfassett]

I like international travel. We will just have to go over there and knock some heads. So many companies (ATX and owners included) are losing sight of the very thing that makes a company survive - the sale. Without the sale, everything else the company does is meaningless - EVERYTHING. So if the bozos over sea don't get that, it would be our job to convince them. My point in all of this - this is not a markeing manager (director) nightmare. It may just be the ultimate challenge.

[JohnH]

My experience with Europeans who buy American companies is absolutely consistent. They ALWAYS think they know more than the stupid Americans, they ALWAYS run everything by the numbers, and they NEVER give anything more than lip service to our suggestions. We are too insular, never cosmopolitan enough to suit their tastes in business management (or anything else, for that matter).

[Guest Taxed]

Gentlemen don't forget CCH has Taxwise too! Strategically speaking if the ATX brand name is destroyed beyond repair they can move some of the resources to upgrade Taxwise which desparately needs a face lift!

[Guest Taxed]

My experience with Europeans who buy American companies is absolutely consistent. They ALWAYS think they know more than the stupid Americans, they ALWAYS run everything by the numbers, and they NEVER give anything more than lip service to our suggestions. We are too insular, never cosmopolitan enough to suit their tastes in business management.

There is truth to that! My bank account ING Direct was sold to Capital One after ING could not hack it! Initially I was getting great interest rates but then it went down real fast!

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

Gentlemen don't forget CCH has Taxwise too! Strategically speaking if the ATX brand name is destroyed beyond repair they can move some of the resources to upgrade Taxwise which desparately needs a face lift!

LOL

Taxwise needs a Joan Rivers Makeover.

ATX needs a Dr. Frankenstein makeover to revive a dead ATX 2011.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

FTM:

What would you do at this moment and in the following situation if you were in charge of marketing?

A prospective customer wants to demo the product. He plans to use it to prepare some of his 2012 extension returns. He already has a couple of your competitors' 2012 software and there are no problems, but he is intrigued by the "Forms-Based" approach. He is going to load it onto a networked system because he wants to simulate how he's going to work next year. He intends to make a decision in the next 30-45 days.

I'd send him 12.0 and wish him luck.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

There have been plenty of reports in the on-line AND print publications of the ATX woes this year. The bad publictiy has not been restricted to this and the other board.

From what I saw it was TAME in relation to the TRUTH.

So I have to disagree. Sorry

[rfassett]

From what I saw it was TAME in relation to the TRUTH.

So I have to disagree. Sorry

Not sure I agree. If ATX, and I understand that the IF is a big word in your mind relative to ATX, has as many users as professed, it is an extreme minimum of users that have been making all of the noise. Even if you have 3,000 users making all of the noise, that is still a small portion of the users. Granted, it may be valid noise, but I do not think it affected that big of the user base as negatively as some of the noise makers are trying to make it seem. You say that only the noise makers know the truth. I disagree. The picture is somewhat bigger than this and the other board try to make it seem. We, the users of this board, are a very, very small part of the ATX user base - and alot of us did not even feel the negative affects as nearly as seriously as you feel. Perspective is all I am talking about and you and some of the other noise makers seem to have distorted perspectives. Not saying that you shouldn't, just saying that is how I see it. There is a bigger picture that you can not see because of the aggitation you feel.

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

Not sure I agree. If ATX, and I understand that the IF is a big word in your mind relative to ATX, has as many users as professed, it is an extreme minimum of users that have been making all of the noise. Even if you have 3,000 users making all of the noise, that is still a small portion of the users. Granted, it may be valid noise, but I do not think it affected that big of the user base as negatively as some of the noise makers are trying to make it seem. You say that only the noise makers know the truth. I disagree. The picture is somewhat bigger than this and the other board try to make it seem. We, the users of this board, are a very, very small part of the ATX user base - and alot of us did not even feel the negative affects as nearly as seriously as you feel. Perspective is all I am talking about and you and some of the other noise makers seem to have distorted perspectives. Not saying that you shouldn't, just saying that is how I see it. There is a bigger picture that you can not see because of the aggitation you feel.

I have heard that argument before that the complainers are a small minority. And that there are people on here that have had little to no problems. Many of them act as if the complainers are a bunch of losers who can't get it together. They have little to no sympathy for the ones who had troubles.

Statistically, I fail to see how a small minority of "losers" could have so many problems, so varied problems, and so varied computer systems many of whom reported they had the latest and greatest in technology.

Personally, i think if people were lucky enough to have had little to no problems with 2012 ATX, then they should get down on their knees and thank whatever GOD they pray to that they were spared, instead of acting like the others are some lazy bunch of idiotic losers. Remember, many were hurt financially this tax season because of ATX, not because of their hardware or the IRS delay.

[rfassett]

I have heard that argument before that the complainers are a small minority. And that there are people on here that have had little to no problems. Many of them act as if the complainers are a bunch of losers who can't get it together. They have little to no sympathy for the ones who had troubles.

Statistically, I fail to see how a small minority of "losers" could have so many problems, so varied problems, and so varied computer systems many of whom reported they had the latest and greatest in technology.

Personally, i think if people were lucky enough to have had little to no problems with 2012 ATX, then they should get down on their knees and thank whatever GOD they pray to that they were spared, instead of acting like the others are some lazy bunch of idiotic losers. Remember, many were hurt financially this tax season because of ATX, not because of their hardware or the IRS delay.

You are going find a few non-carers whatever your issue and where ever you are - that is life! But I do not think you will find "many" on this board that are not sympathetic - at least for the first 90 days of the complaints. And just to sure, "losers" is your word, not mine. I never said nor implied you or any of the other noise makers are "losers". If you are like most of us on here, you are self employed, attempting to make a go it - and in my book. that is the exact opposite of "loser". And I accept your comment of "personally......thank God". I am a firm believer in God and do thank Him from everything from the air that I breath to the water that I drink and to every single thing He does in this world for me and anyone else. To be sure FTM, I have even prayed to Him to walk with you and help you in your life with whatever your needs - ATX or any other. No one that I have seen or read have accused you or any other of being lazy, idiotic, or losers. With the exception of a very, very few, most of the comments that I read on this board are comments to help - and hardly ever in the negative. We all have friends here willing and able to help eash other. Yes, you were hurt financially and I was hurt physically (which we do not need to go into here) by this past tax season - and you can not single out one entity or one company or one thing that caused it. It was a myriad of problems. I have never wanted to work more than 85 or 90 hours per week. In fact, my practice grew to the point that demanded that i work 105 hours per week for 13 weeks during tax season. I did that for three seasons in a row before I fired all of my D and below clients and told C and above, if they wanted to stick around they would have to pay the piper more. Enough stayed that allowed me to work 85 to 90 hours per week. UNTIL this year! I did not think it was phyically possible to work 112 hours per week for 13 weeks. But with about a week of only 60 hours in late February as the exception, that is what i had to do this year. Not because of increased business. But, just to be able to get through IRS, ATX and hardware issues and keep my clients happy. So I do understand your plight. I am not sure I made any less money during this tax season, but I certainly got paid less per hour.

[Guest Taxed]

Just curious. You fired all your Sch D and below clients etc. because the billing was low or was there other reason?

Are you focusing on high net worth taxpayers and entitity returns?

We all have a few problem clients who need more time and effort and we should bill them accordingly. I had a client who ran a flower shop in my town and she kept all her records in little pieces of paper in a grocery bag. I gave her the option. Pay my temp help 10 dollars an hour to sort it and organize for me or she can do it herself as per my specs.

She gave my temp $20-$30 each tax season. Now she is using QB because her daughter is running the admin end of the business.

[rfassett]

Just curious. You fired all your Sch D and below clients etc. because the billing was low or was there other reason?

Are you focusing on high net worth taxpayers and entitity returns?

We all have a few problem clients who need more time and effort and we should bill them accordingly. I had a client who ran a flower shop in my town and she kept all her records in little pieces of paper in a grocery bag. I gave her the option. Pay my temp help 10 dollars an hour to sort it and organize for me or she can do it herself as per my specs.

She gave my temp $20-$30 each tax season. Now she is using QB because her daughter is running the admin end of the business.

Sorry for the confusion. I assign all of my clients a grade based on a wide range of factors - the least of which is how much they pay me, the most of which is the PITA factor. That particular year, I fired all of the D and lower grade clients which were sucking up our resourses without the proper compensation and causing less attention to the higher graded clients. We made more money the following year, with fewer hours and far less stress, and a much happier office. As to compiling receipts, I don't even ask anymore. If they bring it to to me like that, we charge $45 per hour to sort and post them in excel. If we have to go into our writeup program, the rate goes to $55. Back to the firing of the clients issue, it was a very bold and hard decision for me because my practice is in Podunk USA - and the pickin's ain't that plentiful. In my way of thinking leading up to the act, I was concerned of the back fire effect. But alas, it was worry for naught.

[Guest Taxed]

Very interesting. BTW how many clients do you have?

I can see a point of diminishing return as you start getting more and more clients if you are the only preparer. That is when you need a junior partner or employee!

Do you have clients who balk at $55/hr for writeup work?

We have lots of unemployed or under employer bookkeepers in our area so I could not charge that rate!

[joanmcq]

Taxed, you could team up with one of those under or unemployed bookkeepers whom you trust, and farm out the crap work. Hiring an assistant this year didn't keep me below 105 hours a week, but she's learned fast and I'm looking for ways in keeping her more productive (as in hitting the buy button on one of the systems I mentioned in the resources thread). I've already billed a client to have her stand in line at the IRS to turn in a protective claim on April 15! She'll allow me to offer more bookkeeping and mop up work for disorganized clients. And I am a LOT less stressed and behind than I was at this time last year.