ATX Network Performance

[SeattleCPA]

A question from a new forum member...

How well does ATX perform on your network (if you're doing this)...

We've tried to follow the installation directions, etc., but while on the machine ATX resides on, it's acceptably fast to start and open, on the admin assistant's machine (which goes over the little peer to peer network), it's 90 to 120 seconds to get the database optimized and then to reach the signon dialog box... and then maybe another 90-120 seconds to start the program and get to the return manager... and then maybe another 60-90 seconds to open a tax return.

So 4-5 minutes to gets started on that first return of the day...

Is this par for the course?

Steve

Fast Easy Incorporation Kits

[joelgilb]

Network stations can be a little slower than the server. This is partly a function of the speed of the network server, partly a function of the workstation and partly a function of the software.

When I upgraded my machines the workstations did load faster.

Not sure if I ever got your slow speeds though.

[bostoncpa]

Keep in mind there are lots of factors which influence speed. The program will be fast on the server, as it has local access to the files. When you go over a network, it has to first access that machine, then transfer it to the "workstation" machine. If both machines are of an acceptable an I/O, processor, and RAM speed (which varies per OS) then you might want to start looking at the actual network, such as your network card, the cables ect. If you're on a wireless network, it has the potential to be incredibly slow as the connection could constantly drop and reconnect (not mention your database could get corrupted because of this). Also make sure you don't have any other resources via for network connectivity, as that can slow things down also (firewall, anti-virus, other programs).

I hope this helps!

[Mel in Hawaii]

I would check how much memory the machine that is slow has. Compare to 'fast' machine and I bet you will find that free memory is much lower.

[kcjenkins]

All good points to consider. I've been using ATX on a peer to peer network for years, and it was never as slow as you describe. But some older machines were noticeably slower than the newer ones with more memory. And I agree totally that you should NOT use a wireless network, for a network doing tax work. I have both in my office, but the wireless one is not used for the machines on which we do tax work. Actually, it's only used for a couple of laptops.

I suggest you get a good computer network tech in to fine tune your system. The cost can easily be justified by just a few minutes a day saved during tax season, but I'd bet they do a lot more than that for you. Some small cheap 'tweaks' my boys have done for me made a significant difference in how well all my programs ran on the network.

[Tax Prep by Deb]

I had that problem a couple of years ago and tech support had me move the ATX file on the server to a folder at the beginning the of the c drive. This moved it way up on the chain and so it required the workstation less time and effort to find the program.

I still had the problem, but the speed was enhanced. Someone had also suggested clearing the temp files, which we did, also run a program to check and see if any programs had been installed, (without my knowledge) and clean them up. When we did the above recommendations, we noted an increase in the speed and performance.

Each year it seems to be getting a little better, although I have not changed anything on my workstation. I've been using the same computers for the last 4 1/2 years.

Hope this helps!

Deb!

[kcjenkins]

You bring up a good point. The ATX programs can not be in the root drive, C:\MAX so they default to C:\ProgramFiles\MAX

But that ProgramFiles folder is full of LOTS of programs. So if you do a custom install, and put it in a new folder, so that it installs into C:\ATX\MAX it will make it faster for the workstations to find the program, since only the various years of tax programs will be there to be looked through. I've never understood why the automatic install did not set up a separate folder for the programs, rather than defaulting to the ProgramFiles folder, in the first place.

[Mel in Hawaii]

Yes, actually that does make sense. If there are a lot of folders/files in the Program Files folder, it will take longer to open the folder, but this will affect most programs, not just the ATX program.

Unfortunately, each company creating their own root folder c:\ATX C:\Intuit c:\Yahoo c:\Google c:\blahblahblah would have the same effect. Remember that the root folder is limited in the number of files/folders it can contain before the file system can not store anymore (even if you have more hard disk space free). The number is not absolute since it's limited to 512 entries, but a long file name can be numerous entries (100 14 character folders would use 200 entries, 100 22 character folders would use 300 entries). Subfolders can have unlimited number of entries (limited by hard disk space of course).

[joelgilb]

As to wireless networks.

I have used ATX on a wired,and 3 different wireless networks.

On 802.11B all I can say is ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

On 802.11G is actually not that bad on reasonably quick machines with plenty of memory, although it is slower than the server.

On 802.11N I see no noticeable difference from a wired 100 mbps network (have not use a gbps wired network)

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

Mel, The 512 limit applies only to FAT16. Fat32 and NFTS do not have a limit on the root other than the limits applied to any folder (which is >65k depending on length of names).

"FAT32 is more flexible. The root folder on a FAT32 drive is an ordinary cluster chain, so it can be located anywhere on the drive. The previous limitations on the number of root folder entries no longer exist."

"The NTFS limits are described in the NTFS Technical Reference at http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServe...3.mspx?mfr=true. You'll need to scroll down to the table named "NTFS Size Limits." The limit is 4,294,967,295 (232 minus 1 file) files per volume. There isn't a limit on the number of files *per folder* on a volume. However, if you consider the root of the volume to be a folder, then this limit will apply to the root folder itself. "

There are GOOD reasons for putting things in non "standard" places (standard according to MS). For instance, if you use the automatic shadowing or a system restore in Windows, you may cause more problems than you were trying to solve. Relying on Windows to know which files should or should not be backed up is foolish imo. The worst case - and one I have to deal with from customers - is when someone does a system restore and their data gets corrupted because only some of the files were saved/restored by Windows.

[Mel in Hawaii]

See, you learn something new every day. I always keep my root folder clean, so never noticed the elimination of this limit.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

See, you learn something new every day. I always keep my root folder clean, so never noticed the elimination of this limit.

When you get ready to start having others install your program, things like this come up often. Vista has even more issues (permissions) for developers to deal with.

Long ago I started doing things my way. Never use the registry for anything (other than things I have to stick in there to keep Windows from messing my program up, like to not include my things in the system restore). Use my own folder off the root for programs and data (customers can override the default, but it is MUCH easier if we do not have to search their drive for missing data). Program and data in one folder, or at worst, data in a sub-folder of the program's folder (makes backup and data locating much easier). Make automatic and difficult to find (read as harder to delete) data backups for the customer, but let them access it through a menu when needed.

I could go on forever at how simple is always best, no matter what some push as the "standard".

[joelgilb]

Never use the registry for anything (other than things I have to stick in there to keep Windows from messing my program up, like to not include my things in the system restore). Use my own folder off the root for programs and data (customers can override the default, but it is MUCH easier if we do not have to search their drive for missing data). Program and data in one folder, or at worst, data in a sub-folder of the program's folder (makes backup and data locating much easier). Make automatic and difficult to find (read as harder to delete) data backups for the customer, but let them access it through a menu when needed.

I tend to put programs in a in a different directory, sorry folder (old dos guy here) than the software mfg default folder. This way can avoid some of the network issues with having programs in Windows default "Program Files" folder. I also try to put all data files in a folder under "My Documents" (ok so this Windows hater does like the My Documents folder). This seems to ease backup of all softwares' data files from one easy place. It also maximizes the methods for backup. I can zip, use backup software, easily sync etc. S

I find software that keeps its data files in its own folder make it more difficult to backup for both myself and the clients I support.

As for avoiding the Registry (hate the registry btw), I find very few programs and Windows rarely let me do this. Wish Windows allowed everyone to have their hooks, dlls etc in their own folders (even if Windows forced a structure here) and not hooked in the systems folders and registry. But it is the way it is. I understand that this would cause duplication of dlls and other system files, but so what! Windows can always control loading of these files to avoid duplication. Then if I need to move a program folder, I just move it, just like the old dos days.

As for backing up software, well for the most part it is not as important as backing up the data. Data is more critical and needs to be moved more often ( personally upgrade computers every 2 years) than software. If my PC crashed, I could in the worst case go to my original disks to reinstall software, and often this is really the better answer anyway, as thanks to the lousy structure of Windows, it is still necessary to wipe systems out every year or two just to get rid of the bloating and crap in the Registry and Windows folders.

[RoyDaleOne]

One of the things I noticed are you using the server as a work station?

My setup is very much faster then the times given.

I have two workstations and a server. The sever is just that a server, no one uses as a workstation.

I am running gbit lan (1000) the cost is cheap.

At least 1gig if not 2gig in memory on all machines.

Under 30 sec to login and open a small 1040, a few seconds more on a large one.

Most of the 30 sec is to type the login stuff.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

All good stuff Joel. DLL's can be in the application's folder - which is still searched by Windows (different order for some versions of Windows, used to be app folder first in all cases). We use a few self made DLL's and install them only in the app folder so we can update them as needed. Not "Windows" preferred, but the easiest way to service our customers. You do need to be careful of DLL naming to reduce the chance of someone else using the same name.

We do allow data in different folders than the app, but for support purposes, it makes it difficult to help when someone cannot find their data. We built a search function for just such cases which has reduced/shortened the number of help calls. Windows has made it so easy for people not to understand computer workings, we spend as much time teaching/preventing as programming.

I use an online service for external backup. It is easy to setup an exclusion for exe/dll files then tick off the folders I want to backup. Same for my on site backups. I just don't feel safe with all data in one location. For instance, file naming has no standard and I do not want a file from one app to cause a problem with another. (Goes along with the issue of Windows system restore grabbing/restoring too many files because of the way it grabs files by file extension.) Even worse is when someone restoring simply restores everything instead of just what was lost (restore the entire my documents folder instead of just one set or app data).

(rant alert)

The top problem I just can't overcome is those that "think" they have a good backup system in place - typically someone whose IT person set it up - who never test restore, then call because the backup they thought they had was garbage. The next problem - maybe tied for #1 and usually part of #1 - is support "experts" who take the chicken way out and tell their client they have to reformat their drive. It happens so often one has to make two observations - these "experts" have no idea what they are doing and getting the computer to boot makes them feel like a hero, or they do know what they are doing and how much they will earn by causing their customer to have to find/recreate/restore the data and programs the format caused.

Remember - if you have not actually tried restoring your data and seeing if it restores correctly - "you have no backup".

[joelgilb]

All good stuff Joel. DLL's can be in the application's folder - which is still searched by Windows (different order for some versions of Windows, used to be app folder first in all cases). We use a few self made DLL's and install them only in the app folder so we can update them as needed. Not "Windows" preferred, but the easiest way to service our customers. You do need to be careful of DLL naming to reduce the chance of someone else using the same name.

Yes but most do not do this and then Windows gets BLOOAATTEEED.

We do allow data in different folders than the app, but for support purposes, it makes it difficult to help when someone cannot find their data. We built a search function for just such cases which has reduced/shortened the number of help calls. Windows has made it so easy for people not to understand computer workings, we spend as much time teaching/preventing as programming.

I do understand the capability of the user. Have done tech support over the years and have torn my hair out when they change things and can't tell you where they are.

But how about the software mfg creating a specific folder for your software under the "My Documents" folder. This is what I do when a program allows me to. Then you name it, know where it is, and it is unlikely the user will change it.

I use an online service for external backup. It is easy to setup an exclusion for exe/dll files then tick off the folders I want to backup. Same for my on site backups. I just don't feel safe with all data in one location. For instance, file naming has no standard and I do not want a file from one app to cause a problem with another. (Goes along with the issue of Windows system restore grabbing/restoring too many files because of the way it grabs files by file extension.) Even worse is when someone restoring simply restores everything instead of just what was lost (restore the entire my documents folder instead of just one set or app data).

I agree, most don't really understand their backup system or have alternative options. I have Norton Ghost doing an automatic backup, but if I hadn't checked when I did my first few I never would have know it was giving me errors and I really had no backup. Alternatively I periodically use Zip to make DVD backups and use a USB drive that I sync the data to so it is not compressed and can be used on the fly. Now I know I am anal here and most don't do this. I also know that I don't do the other 2 methods as often as the auto backup by Norton.

(rant alert)

The top problem I just can't overcome is those that "think" they have a good backup system in place - typically someone whose IT person set it up - who never test restore, then call because the backup they thought they had was garbage. The next problem - maybe tied for #1 and usually part of #1 - is support "experts" who take the chicken way out and tell their client they have to reformat their drive. It happens so often one has to make two observations - these "experts" have no idea what they are doing and getting the computer to boot makes them feel like a hero, or they do know what they are doing and how much they will earn by causing their customer to have to find/recreate/restore the data and programs the format caused.

Remember - if you have not actually tried restoring your data and seeing if it restores correctly - "you have no backup".

I can only agree with this one! Sigh!