Mainetaxguy

Florida Tax Man, Kimmie is called "Mommy"...are you sure she isn't called "Mommy Dearest"?

This whole thing under scores the need for good computer programmers and the need to stay really focused on what the IRS and Congress is doing. Nothing beats good quality control and beta testing. Inexpensive services like H & R Block, ATX, Taxworks, etc. are cutting corners by not hiring and keeping good people on board. As a business, they have to make a choice - do you hire good people and charge more, or do you hire lousy people and risk destroying your brand name. ATX apparently made the latter choice and they are paying dearly for it. Taxworks too. H & R Block...well, please...who would ever use H & R Block.

I'm sure a lot of software vendors are going to offer a lot of special deals and incentives to any ATX customer to lure them away. However, be careful - they may offer you a great deal today, but they may jack up the price come renewal time. Unless you are having a completely terrible time using ATX, better to just get through tax season, and review other vendors with a more clear head. Drake and others are claiming they are getting a lot of ATX customers, but without any real numbers, it's hard to say.

Joanmcq, these are only theories on my part. My point is that the CCH lawyers are not stupid - I'm sure they are reading this and other message boards about ATX (e.g., TaxTalk and comments left on accounting magazines). I worked for a law firm a long time ago - I know how these things work - when you file suit, law firms normally request your records (e-mails, phone recordings, etc). I'm sure the CCH lawyers have to be worried about the paper trail that has already been left at ATX regarding computer software problems, and customers calling or e-mailing complaints about the service. It seems to be based on these posts and other posts at other sites, that ATX technical support are not responding very quickly (if at all) to inbound phone calls, and requests for refunds have fallen on deaf ears (unless you know a good ATX sales rep who can help you). Let's just see how things shake out after tax season. Maybe ATX will make some major amends (large discounts), or something like that. I'm sure they are already examining the financial and PR fallout on all this, and hopefully they will come up with a good game plan.

I agree with Birddog that a class action suit needs to be filed. While it means that the attorneys will line their pockets, a strong message has to be sent. And by the way - there may be a hidden reason why many of our e-mails and phone calls are not being returned - I strongly suspect that the CCH lawyers have already instructed both ATX sales and technical support people to be VERY careful about what they say or write to us. Why? Because this is no longer a computer software program - it is becoming a LEGAL problem. All inbound calls are recorded They keep records of all e-mails. If a class action suit if filed, the attorneys representing us will request all that information - and more, like QA reports on the computer software, e-mails between various ATX employees regarding computer software issues, etc. This whole thing could drag out in years. So, if you are on hold for a very long time, and people are hanging up on you, there is a reason for it - LEGAL reason, why many of the ATX technical and customer service people are not speaking to us now. Anything they say or write to us could be used AGAINST them in a court of law. Get it? We are all on our own now.

I have to agree with Taxed about this. Sure, as I mentioned above, you can blame some of the last minute changes by Congress. It happens. But its clear there is something deeper about the problems and ATX and Taxworks are having this year. I just think both companies tried to do too much too soon and ended up creating a mess. And yes, you don't hear these problems from the expensive Prosystem fx or other programs. Why? Because they are more "high end" and they can afford to hire better programmers. I'm not familiar with Taxworks, so I don't know the total background about their problems. But ATX has always been a decent low cost tax prep program for the "little guys." I just think CCH moved too quickly in making lots of changes with the end game of laying off a bunch of programmers after tax season. This seems to be a pattern with CCH. The laid off the entire sales and customer service staff in Caribou, ME a few years ago right before the beginning of tax season to "save money", but all they ended up doing was creating a major mess - long holds on technical support lines, and completely uneducated (at least then) tech support people who didn't understand the ATX product at that time. Now, they are going to have to retain their good programmers, fire the bad ones, and make some tough decisions after tax season about whether to keep or fire most of their sales and customer service staff. The brand has suffered. It will take years for them to repair the damage.

No, just a loyal ATX customer who is tired of seeing CCH screw things up. I would agree that the last minute changes by Congress had a hand in this mess. But with any software change, it's better to take it in steps rather than do a wholesale change. Remember IntelliConnect - same deal - too much change in one year for research - created a big mess for everyone. This despite the fact that CCH claimed they hired 300 to 400 beta testers to "test" IntelliConnect, the program still came up short.

Taxed, the reason is simple - to save money. It appears both ATX and TaxWorks thought they could do three years worth of computer programming into one year - this way, they could lay off or fire the computer programmers that revamp the programs, and "save" money. They failed. They miscalculated the amount of work and effort it would take to do the job. Now they are paying the price. For ATX, it's the typical CCH move - you try to "save" money by doing the impossible, and in the end, you only end up losing more money. CCH has destroyed the ATX brand. While some improvements have been made, its too little, too late. It will be interesting to see what special deals or offers ATX makes after tax season.

There is a great article and update about the problems of ATX in the Progressive Accountant. The article is dated March 5, 2013. The biggest take away is that while other software companies are responding very quickly to technical support issues, ATX is really lagging behind and in some cases, are not returning phone calls or e-mails (boy, what a surprise!). In any case, the link is below, but if the link doesn't work, just Google "The Progressive Accountant" + "ATX" - you will find it there... http://www.theprogressiveaccountant.com/tax/atx-taxworks-woes-continue-for-some.html

Jack from Ohio, I keep saying over and over again - CCH does not care that much about ATX. CCH's major focus is on prosystem fx and higher paying clients. They only bought ATX and Kleinrock in order to capture a large customer base with the hope of maybe converting some of us over to higher levels (and higher fee) services. For those of us who don't want to pay more for prosystem fx or other higher CCH's sevices, well...too bad..as far as CCH is concern. They will go through the motions of "helping us", hire lousy computer programmers, uneducated customer service and technical support people, and do just enough to get by. Like it or not, from an economic point of view, we are small potatoes to CCH. Get use to it, or leave.

You have a choice - either stay with ATX, and deal with a lousy program and bad technical support, or spend more money to...CCH, and go with Prosystem fx, and get a better program with better technical support...when you consider all the time you are wasting dealing with ATX, you need to do the math and decide which option is better. Maybe that is CCH's long term plan....keep screwing up ATX enough that customers will go to CCH's Prosystem fx....and spend more money!

Jack of Ohio, that's my point. ProSystem FX has field reps - sales people who actually visit your office and give you a demo and sales pitch. When was the last time an ATX sales rep visited you? For the high price programs, CCH will go all out to get their sales people to visit your office. As for ATX - well, you can call them....I'm sure you can get an ATX sales person on the phone at easier than you can an ATX technical support person these days.

ProSystem fx is owned by CCH. It's a better product than ATX. Why? Because people are willing to spend more money on ProSystem than on ATX. It's really simple economics here - if you were CCH, where would you invest most of your time, money and best people? On ProSystem fx - of course. ProSystem fx was developed by CCH, it's CCH's baby and CCH will take care of its own baby. But ATX? - it was "adopted" - a stepchild if you will, and normally adopted children are not treated as well as regular children. My point - CCH isn't going to invest a lot of time, money and good people on an "adopted" child that is not generating as much money as ProSystem fx. There is nothing personal in CCH's decision - it's just business. As the old saying goes "you get what you buy for." Do you think that ProSystem fx is having the same problems of ATX? No.

What Mr. Marx should do after tax season - 1). Fire half the sales and customer service staff - they are useless at this point. 2). Hire better computer programmers and fire the ones who did a lousy job this year. 3). Allow customers to send him e-mails and contact him directly about their concerns. No "undelivered" e-mail addresses. Be a man. Hear what your customers have to say. 4). Offer ATX customers at least a 50% early renewal discount for next year. 5). Appear on the ATX Home Page and have a "State of the ATX address" and explain how ATX screwed up, and what ATX intends to do about fixing the mess. Again, be a man. 6). Do an internal audit and determine who screwed up within the company. Once you find the guilty parties, fire them. In short, the new ATX president should be in the front of this issue - not hiding behind his desk. The CCH sissy boy stuff has got to go. By getting in front of this problem early, addressing all concerns, offering solutions, and firing the bums who messed up, the new ATX president could demonstrate something that we haven't seen in CCH for a while - Integrity.

It's interesting that we haven't heard from the new ATX/CCH president yet. Except for his BS e-mail to us, there has been no other e-mails or correspondence. No videos on the ATX Home Page. Where is the leadership? Hiding? Are they afraid? I still think that CCH made a bad decision hiring a CCH clone to run ATX. It's clear they need to hire someone from the outside to come in and fix this mess. But on the other hand, who the heck would want the job? If I were an ATX sales rep, I would start sending out my resume now and find a better job. Can you imagine an ATX sales rep having the balls to call us after tax season, and ask for an early renewal discount. I would rather be standing on a street corner begging for money - at least a homeless person has more dignity and honesty than an ATX sales rep. Have any of you seen the LinkedIn photos of some of the ATX "quality" control employees? Go to LinkedIn and type "ATX" and "quality", and you will see the sorriest looking bunch of guys you have ever seen in your life. I'm sorry to be rude, but most of them don't look very smart to me. Computer programmers? Really? I mean, really? No way. They look like they couldn't change oil in a car. As I said before, they need to cut the sales staff in half after tax season, hire better computer programmers and pray they retain a minimum of 50% of their customer base by the end of the year.

The devil (CCH) wants to encourage fear among the ATX customers. "Stay with us," CCH warns "because its better to stay with the known than the unknown." Fear is CCH's weapon. Drake may not be your cup of tea. OK. Well, you will have plenty of time after tax season to check other services Just make sure that CCH - using fear - doesn't lure you with early renewal discounts and false promises that they can't deliver. Take your time. But don't let fear drive your decision making process. You're in control. Not CCH.

Oh CCH, why do you keep buying out companies and screwing them up? Why don’t you just give up and leave the small customers alone We really don’t want to pick a bone, but could you at least answer your phones. We call and call, but all we do is take the fall, from using bad software as we bear our souls to our angry customers, who just want a refund so they can have some fun Buy and screw, buy and screw, that’s all you do with small companies, as we work on our taxes, which are due Please leave us alone, and we will throw you a bone, or better yet, just go home.

The real question is "how many ATX programmers does it take to screw up a software program?" Answer: "As many as ATX can hire because suckers keep buying their program every year."

The devil (CCH) knows that the best way to defeat your enemy is to have them turn against each other. When ATX customers report on one another, they are not helping themselves; instead, they are helping CCH grind us all into dust. Dust that can blow away in the wind while CCH laughs at our trials and errors with ATX's program. United we stand. Divided we fall...into the depths of CCH's hell.

Florida Tax Man, it appears you didn't get the memo. You see, ATX couldn't afford to hire beta testers for the new software. So they decided to save money by having all the customers beta test for them. Now that ATX sees the program isn't working well, they will redevelop it, and have it ready.....for next tax season!

As I keep saying, if CCH is smart, they will drop ATX like a hot potato and run - not walk - run to the nearest exit. Sage just sold SalesLogix because it is a piece of s**t. CCH messed up ATX and they are not going to invest more money unless they lay off a significant number of sales and customer service people, and hire good programmers and quality control folks. The watch word for ATX is retention, retention and retention - if they can't hold the line after tax season, and early renewal discounts are down significantly, I guarantee CCH is going to cut bait and run. Let's hope they sell it to someone who actually gives a damn about the little guy.

cbslee, here's the real deal - CCH OVERPAID for both ATX and Kleinrock several years ago. United Communications Group (UCG), based in Maryland, originally owned both ATX and Kleinrock. In an effort to force CCH's hand in buying out both divisions, UCG sent two employees to RIA in NYC to make it appear that RIA was in a bidding war with CCH to buy ATX and Kleinrock. However, RIA had NO interest in buying both divisions. It was only after CCH bought both ATX and Kleinrock that they realize they were conned. In short, CCH didn't do their due diligence before making the purchase (why am I not surprise here). So...ever since then, both employees and customers had to pay the price - layoffs, turnover, bad software, etc because CCH overpaid when they did the buy-out. And on top of that, CCH made a major blunder in splitting both ATX and Kleinrock apart - which created confusion and chaos for a couple years. This is why things are a mess today and will continue to be a mess in the future. The more CCH tries to "save" money, the more they end up losing more money. It's a vicious cycle that never ends.

Randall, I'm using a little poetic license here. And yes, I was on hold too long with ATX.

ATX, why did you sell your soul to CCH? Why did you make haste and allow so much waste, When you could have been chaste. Did CCH tie you with a lace, or spray you with mace, so that you would loose your face. Oh ATX, come home, return to the good old days, when customer and technical support would pick up their phones. Oh ATX, come home, return to the gold old days, when your programs worked, and we weren’t being jerked. Where are you ATX? Hark, I hear in the distance, CCH grinning you into dust, feeding you into the Greed machine, while we fuss over our returns. Goodbye Caribou, Goodbye Fort Pierce, Goodbye to all the old ATX employees who got laid off, “Off with their heads!” cries CCH, so that Greed machine can eat. But watch for the back swing, as Jeff would testify, as his head rolls down the hill, filled with so many heads before him. The snows of Caribou and the sands of Fort Pierce are covered in blood from laid off ATX employees, but who will wash the blood off the hands of CCH? Lame excuses, late apologies, and all the bleach in the world, cannot begin to remove the red stains that mark CCH. Go to bed, old ATX, go to bed, so that you may rest in peace. We will endure, knowing that once you were a great company, before the Greed machine ate you. Go to bed, old ATX, go to bed, you are in our prays. But take heed, all small companies out there; beware, the Greed machine marches on, will you be next?

Michaselmars, Censorship is the first sign of tyranny. The failure to censor is the first sign of Incompetence. Tyranny + Incompetence = ATX. As for Kimmie, after the mess that ATX has put us through, she probably has changed. Too bad. But when you work for the devil (CCH), sooner or later, you are going to be burn.