JohnH

My experience with Europeans who buy American companies is absolutely consistent. They ALWAYS think they know more than the stupid Americans, they ALWAYS run everything by the numbers, and they NEVER give anything more than lip service to our suggestions. We are too insular, never cosmopolitan enough to suit their tastes in business management (or anything else, for that matter).

--> And then we would have to get on development and support and make sure that what we are telling the user is what is going to happen. <-- There's no way we can get that assurance, or rely upon it if someone is foolish enough to give it to us. So anything we say will still be based on wishful thinking at best. No sense applying. We aren't going to be hired, because we will only tell them the truth and they don't want to hear it. I agree that we are in lock down survival mode, and our biggest immediate problem is that our overseas masters are interested only in growth.

FTM: What would you do at this moment and in the following situation if you were in charge of marketing? A prospective customer wants to demo the product. He plans to use it to prepare some of his 2012 extension returns. He already has a couple of your competitors' 2012 software and there are no problems, but he is intrigued by the "Forms-Based" approach. He is going to load it onto a networked system because he wants to simulate how he's going to work next year. He intends to make a decision in the next 30-45 days.

The marketing side of this situation continues to look like an onion. As each layer is peeled off, there are simply more underneath. And to press the analogy, this situation would bring tears to any marketing manager's eyes. It's fascinating to watch. I've been involved in a few near-meltdown situations and watched how the experts navigated huge marketing disasters - in this case I haven't yet figured out a viable strategy they can pursue.

Well, it is fo-rum.

Why stop at 6? It's so cheap, and not a serious business consideration, just buy 50 or so.

Changing computers every 2-3 years would be absurd. A silly waste of resources. After all, we're preparing tax returns here - not supplying the International Space Station.

Hard to justify not having an ipad these day, isn't it?

I think you're following a very enlightened business plan. Not only have you identified a backup, but you're familiar enough with it that you could turn the ship at any time if necessary. You have good business smarts - no vendor can ever hold you hostage to their own failures. I know some people who could learn from you if they were just a tiny bit more imaginative.

True, it's 21%, but it's still only $300 actual dollar bills no matter how many ways you crunch the numbers. Even in normal times it would be risky, and in this environment it's beyond anything approaching normal risk. I'd look at it as the equivalent of a single tax return (or maybe a couple of small ones). So is it worth risking all the aggravation of one or two tax return preparation fees to expose yourself to the potential headaches? Personally, I've never taken the discount with ATX and never regretted it. So this year, when the chips were down, I was able to make a good business decision unencumbered by any worries about money sunk in a rat hole. I walked away without any financial considerations to distract me - just moved on. It was a good feeling.

Good sales reps are always aware of one thing. "Sincerity is the key to success. Once you can fake that, you've got it made."

I just use the paper version. Haven't tried the web version, but I understand it's handy based on what people are saying on their forum. For me, sometimes I just like to hold a book in my hand to look something up. (Some old habits die hard) I might get more interested if they develop something for the iPad, though. I had already purchased the Tax Book back in October 2012 before I decided to abandon ATX and go with Drake in January 2013, so no deals were available to me. I'll be figuring out the pricing during May, but I assume it will save some money since I'm bundling The Tax Book with Drake this year. For the first time in my life, I'm thinking about taking the early purchase discount on my tax software since I'm convinced I'll be using Drake next year.

I meant to add something important to our side conversation concering learning more about Excel but it slipped my mind until this morning. There's a great site which provides email tips on using Excel. Here's the link: http://excel.tips.net/faq.html?awt_l=EXwEx&awt_m=Jmdj2_Z_QHsx4X There's a free version and a paid version. Both are very helpful, with the paid version just having more info each week. The tips usually arrive on Saturday morning, and they are frequently very useful. So I'm passing this info along just in case you want to get more involved in Excel and develop proficiency.

I've used the TaxBook for a very long time. I switched to them from QuickFinder about 5-6 years ago - maybe longer. The Taxbook satisfies almost all my needs, and they have an excellent forum as well.

Long ago when I first got into this field, I would take any business I could get. I gained a client who was a chronic payroll tax delinquent when he came to me. So we were meeting with an IRS collections agent who was being pretty hard-nosed. I'd call his demenanor fair but firm. My client blurted out something to the effect that what IRS was about to do would put him out of business. The collections agent looked him right in the eye, and without the slightest emotion or judgementalism calmly replied "Mr____, if you're going to spend your employees' withholding taxes, we INTEND to put you out of business." Not long thereafter he came up with the money and stayed current for many years.

Not required with the 2012 return, but I'd include a copy of the 2010 Form 8606, just to give them something to look at. If the reviewer happened not to understand the issue, maybe that would prompt them to ask someone for help.

Just to be clear, I'm not implying that I think they will shut down ATX or not. I was just brainstorming the scenario because marketing & sales is important to me in my other role. Most businesses contemplating major moves go to great pains to pretend that nothing has changed until the last possible moment. They keep insisting that "nothing has changed", "we're staying the course", "your interests are paramount", and so on. Then they lower the boom, hopefully at a time that has enabled them to keep loyal customers on the hook past the point that bolting to the competition is just too painful. I've seen it numerous times in the medical equipment field - happens all the time. It may seem insensitive and uncaring, but the objective in business is to make money, not friends.

I stick to the old-fashioned way. If it's important enough to track, it's important enough to take to the post office, get a certified mail receipt, and pay for return receipt. Well worth the $ 6.11 cost. I have my proof of mailing, and I get the green card back for my files (about 95% of the time). I also photocopy the envelope (front and back) after everything is inside, stickers are stuck on, and it's ready to go to the post office. I've heard people claim it's useless because you can't prove what's in the envelope, but I think that's bogus. The few times I've had to produce this info IRS always accepted it - in one instance it saved a proposed corporate return penalty in the thousands of dollars.

I think I'd include the 8606 and a copy of the adjustment letter. No cover letter needed. I'd use the explanation section of the 1040X to tie it all together, probably by simply stating that "The second required payment of taxes due for a 2010 IRA conversion was missing from the original 2012 return as filed. This amended return corrects that omission. Additional tax due of $800 is enclosed herewith." (or something to that effect). By simply stating that it "was missing", you avoid trying to offer various speculations about the omission and you have given them all the info they need to make the adjustment.

For an $800 refund amount I'd tell the client to deposit the check and pay the $800 with the 1040x. The small amount of interest they will pay will be a pittance compared to the hassles they will have if IRS mis-handles the void check. If the client balked at that I'd tell them to give me the interest bill and I'd pay it. In the long run that will be cheaper than the potential wasted time. Here's how to find the address: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Where-to-File-Tax-Returns---Addresses-Listed-by-Return-Type

The thought occurred to me that if we begin asking healthcare-related questions, we might find ourselves coming under the HIPAA regulations. If you think Circular 230 is a hassle, just try wading through HIPAA.

I'm curious about something. Would ANYONE on this forum seriously consider renewing early? Seems like a colossal waste of time for ATX to even ask. But on the other hand if they happen to be thinking about abandoning the product (as some have suggested), then a lack of early renewals might actualy help drive that decision. Looks like a bit of a Catch-22 for those considering hanging on.

I wouldn't have said this until I made the plunge into Drake, but after making that move I learned something about speed. Forms-based input is vastly overrated and it actually slows you down. It's appealing because it is intutive and simple, but it is very inefficient. Since inefficiency costs money, it turns out that forms-based entry is also a more expensive way to work. When I evaluate my backup for Drake, I think I will probably rule out ATX in part because it is forms-based. The only reason I might consider it as a backup is just because I'm familiar with it - more or less like an old pair of comfortable shoes.

In addition to what KC said, all the sales material I read was full of dodges, weaves, and every type of financial doublespeak you can imagine. And it all ended with "consult your tax advisor". So in the final analysis, they were building in enough land mines to sink anyone who agrees with the tax implications of what they recommend, should something go awry. There are so many ways a self-directed IRA can go wrong that all I saw was trouble ahead. Here's some good reading material: http://www.producersesource.com/featured-middle-right/7-self-directed-ira-issues-advisors-should-review-with-clients-before-they-take-the-plunge/ You can also google "Self-Directed IRA Problems" or a similar set of words. You'll get enough hits to keep you up all night reading them. Or you can just read one or two of them and let it keep you up all night wondering how you're going to tell the client you don't want anything to do with the mess they're about to get into.

I've had three clients over the years who asked me about Self-Directed IRA plans. After I investigated it the first time, I told that client he would need to find another accountant if he went through with the plan. I also responded the same way to the other two clients without even bothering to look into it more. If one were to call me today, I'd tell them exactly the same thing.