Non resident alien - dependent exemptions???

[Guest Taxed]

If you amend his 1040NR to a 1040 because it is "advantageous money wise" you will be buying the rope to hang yourself!

Tell him to go to his friend's tax preparer.

[kcjenkins]

Or better yet, tell him you can not do it because it is illegal, and also will almost certainly get him audited. Just sending him to someone who will help him break the law does not seem like a good idea to me.

[JohnH]

Thanks for that bit of wisdom and common sense in your definitions KC. On our last trip to India my wife's passport went missing. We had to spend an entire day visiting the police, US Consulate, and India immigration. We were described as aliens, foreigners, non-Indians, and maybe a few other terms in the various reports and paperwork generated. We didn't take offense at any of it, though, because even though she was truly an undocumented person, we were not in the country illegally. I think that is the key difference.

[kcjenkins]

A very good example of my point, John. I hate the fact that some will assume that I hate aliens. That is totally not the case. I really think we need to improve our system and make it easier for those who are not criminals and want to come here to work and to give their children a better chance at life. But refusing to talk about the problem honestly with the proper terms just makes it harder to separate the problem of dealing with the 'good' folks from the problems of dealing with the 'bad' ones.

[jainen]

>>talk about the problem honestly with the proper terms<<

What professional word-smiths, such as lawyers and journalists, have recognized is that "proper terms" should reflect fact rather than emotions when facts are meant. A person can not be illegal, even if they commit an illegal act. That is why "illegal immigrant" is an offensive term, because an immigrant is a person and there is no such thing as an illegal person under the 14th Amendment, whether they have the right paperwork or not. "Undocumented" is being used now as a neutral and accurate description when talking honestly.

[Jack from Ohio]

>>talk about the problem honestly with the proper terms<<

What professional word-smiths, such as lawyers and journalists, have recognized is that "proper terms" should reflect fact rather than emotions when facts are meant. A person can not be illegal, even if they commit an illegal act. That is why "illegal immigrant" is an offensive term, because an immigrant is a person and there is no such thing as an illegal person under the 14th Amendment, whether they have the right paperwork or not. "Undocumented" is being used now as a neutral and accurate description when talking honestly.

In my not so humble opinion... This is just more "political correctness" our society is using to "hide" the truth. It is the "wussifying" of America at it's finest. Better to not offend someone than to speak the straight truth. I for one, and sick of it.

[JohnH]

>>talk about the problem honestly with the proper terms<<

What professional word-smiths, such as lawyers and journalists, have recognized is that "proper terms" should reflect fact rather than emotions when facts are meant. A person can not be illegal, even if they commit an illegal act. That is why "illegal immigrant" is an offensive term, because an immigrant is a person and there is no such thing as an illegal person under the 14th Amendment, whether they have the right paperwork or not. "Undocumented" is being used now as a neutral and accurate description when talking honestly.

So if someone walked into your office, beat you up, took all your money, and left you for dead, you wouldn't call them a criminal until they were convicted in a court of law? Maybe you would just refer to that person as a misbehaver, so as not to be offensive? And if it happened they had also bypassed our borders to get into the country, would they just be an undocumented misbehaver?

[jainen]

>>This is just more "political correctness" our society is using to "hide" the truth.<<

I agree--a minority political faction is using emotionally-charged language to hide their true prejudices. I'm just a bit surprised to find it so strong in taxation, which everyone is subject to.

The 14th Amendment says, "No State shall... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." That means they are within the law if they are HERE, period. Even when they don't have a birth certificate or a visa or any other paperwork, being a person in the United States is never illegal under ANY circumstances.

Their ACTIONS are a different question. So if you REALLY want to speak the "straight truth," talk about working illegally or whatever else you think is going on. Of course, then you'll have to talk about who is paying them or whatever else is going on.

[ILLMAS]

_{"Of course, then you'll have to talk about who is paying them or whatever else is going on."}

_{Bingo, we always turn a blind eye for our clients don't we.}

[jainen]

>>you wouldn't call them a criminal until they were convicted in a court of law?<<

Of course I would call them a criminal because their action was a crime. (Sneaking across the border is a civil offense rather than a crime, but it's not a bad analogy--I have no objection to the term illegal immigration, referring to action.) I would not call the criminal an illegal client or an illegal neighbor or an illegal girlfriend (the people most likely to do that to me!) even if their status as client, neighbor, or friend was related to the attack. There is simply no such thing as an illegal immigrant, except in political rhetoric.

[Jack from Ohio]

>>you wouldn't call them a criminal until they were convicted in a court of law?<<

Of course I would call them a criminal because their action was a crime. (Sneaking across the border is a civil offense rather than a crime, but it's not a bad analogy--I have no objection to the term illegal immigration, referring to action.) I would not call the criminal an illegal client or an illegal neighbor or an illegal girlfriend (the people most likely to do that to me!) even if their status as client, neighbor, or friend was related to the attack. There is simply no such thing as an illegal immigrant, except in political rhetoric.

You keep believing that if it lets you sleep well at night. How about we just call them illegal persons? Such tunnel vision!!

[kcjenkins]

I have no objection to the term illegal immigration, referring to action.

There is simply no such thing as an illegal immigrant, except in political rhetoric.

Sorry, but since you recognize there is " illegal immigration" then it's total nit-picking to say that the person who commits that " illegal immigration" can't be called an illegal immigrant, just as we call someone who commits robbery a robber. The word 'illegal' here is being associated with the act, not the person, per se.

[jainen]

>>The word 'illegal' here is being associated with the act, not the person, per se. <<

No. In that phrase, illegal modifies the person. If you want to associate it with an action, that would be a different phrase. People who look but don't buy are not illegal shoppers, although some particular ones might steal something. I say that in response to your comparison to robbers, every single one of whom is committing a criminal act per se. But again, entering the U.S. without a visa is almost NEVER a criminal act. This is a simple fact, not my opinion.

So let's not compare immigrants to criminals. How about comparing them to taxpayers in the spirit of this forum? Failing to pay taxes, even deliberately or fraudulently, is almost never considered a crime. We don't like tax cheats, but that's because of their actions. We don't color the public discussion with prejudicial terms like "illegal taxpayers." We understand that being a taxpayer per se is not illegal, even when particular actions are.

[Jack from Ohio]

But again, entering the U.S. without a visa is almost NEVER a criminal act. This is a simple fact, not my opinion.

Are you simply trying to mess with our heads and pull a complete joke?

Certainly you are not THAT blinded by liberal thoughts and rhetoric?

What are the checkpoints at border crossings for? How are people crossing the border at places other than checkpoints being arrested if it is not a crime?

This is really the worst case of exaggerate and extrapolate I have seen yet!!!

"Illegally immigrated persons" New P/C term for the people committing a criminal act by crossing the border against our laws.

[jainen]

>>What are the checkpoints at border crossings for?<<

To make sure the paperwork is in order. Almost everyone crossing at the checkpoints is legally authorized to, tens of thousands of people per day. But even if they aren't, or if they cross someplace else, it is not a criminal act, any more than underpaying taxes is.

It's an administrative or civil violation, subject to due process and appropriate penalty, but don't compare them to robbers any more than your clients are robbers. To persist in doing so is what I consider being blinded by political thoughts and rhetoric. It does not help the discussion; it only blocks understanding of the real problem.

In my opinion, those who mischaracterize and dehumanize the people who are coming here illegally are a big part of the real problem. But it's a common tactic of politicians serving certain economic interests,

[Guest Taxed]

I am not sure how many Americans know this but the US State Dept. presumes that all foreigners who are applying for a Visa at a consulate to visit USA are INTENDING to emigrate to USA. In fact you have to prove to the satisfaction of the consular officer that your intention is to return back to your own country, before they give you a visitor visa. Just ask any Chinese or Indian friend!

[ILLMAS]

I am not sure how many Americans know this but the US State Dept. presumes that all foreigners who are applying for a Visa at a consulate to visit USA are INTENDING to emigrate to USA. In fact you have to prove to the satisfaction of the consular officer that your intention is to return back to your own country, before they give you a visitor visa. Just ask any Chinese or Indian friend!

This applies to business people only, student visa don't require for you to demonstrate you have capital in your country.

[JohnH]

I am not sure how many Americans know this but the US State Dept. presumes that all foreigners who are applying for a Visa at a consulate to visit USA are INTENDING to emigrate to USA. In fact you have to prove to the satisfaction of the consular officer that your intention is to return back to your own country, before they give you a visitor visa. Just ask any Chinese or Indian friend!

Don't most countries have those sorts of provisions? After all, a visa is permission to visit the country for a limited period of time. I think it's reasonable for the guest to prove that he/she intends to return to their country of origin.

[Jack from Ohio]

In my opinion, those who mischaracterize and dehumanize the people who are coming here illegally are a big part of the real problem. But it's a common tactic of politicians serving certain economic interests,

In my opinion, those who choose to ignore the breaking of laws, and "rename" and "re-characterize" the actions of the people breaking the laws to make them seem less like a crime are the major source of the problem of not being able to enforce the laws we have. This is a common tactic of the left to camouflage the real problem. The left wants the people here. The left does not want "voters" to prove their identity or citizenship to vote. Hence the diversionary tactics to make people think those coming here without going through proper procedures and process are not criminal.

Anyone who breaks a law is a criminal.

Your point about not filing tax returns or filing knowingly fraudulent returns being a crime is spot on. No one is trying to decriminalize the people who break that law as well. Calling people who enter this country by breaking laws "undocumented workers" is as appropriate as teaching someone how to pick up a turd by the clean end.

The IRS is a multi Billion dollar department of the Government that is tasked with enforcing the laws about not filing and fraudulent filing. What I do NOT see is any Government attempt to enforce the current laws about illegal immigrants that are on the books now.

[Kea]

When traveling to Mexico, you do not need any kind of visa if your trip is less than 72 hours. If your trip is for between 72 hours and 180 days you can get a tourist visa at the border. No questions about bank accounts or anything like that. Just name, address, passport type info.

If you plan to make money in Mexico or stay there for longer than 6 months, those visas require a lot more info - including income and / or total assets.

But if I just want to cross the border for some shopping and dining for an afternoon, it's no big deal. As I understand it, the amount of paperwork and approvals for a Mexican citizen to come to the US - even if just for an afternoon of shopping - is very expensive and very involved. I don't know all the rules, but I've heard it does include proving you have a job and other reasons for returning home to Mexico.

[Guest Taxed]

Don't most countries have those sorts of provisions? After all, a visa is permission to visit the country for a limited period of time. I think it's reasonable for the guest to prove that he/she intends to return to their country of origin.

I could be wrong but most countries unlike USA do not presume that every visitor is intending to immigrate and must overcome that burden to get a US visa. After all how many Americans are banging on the doors of India or China or Vietnam to stay there permanently? Those countries love to have people from USA or Europe visit their country. It is big time income for them.

[Guest Taxed]

>>>The IRS is a multi Billion dollar department of the Government that is tasked with enforcing the laws about not filing and fraudulent filing. What I do NOT see is any Government attempt to enforce the current laws about illegal immigrants that are on the books now. <<<

I think the traditional Republicans have realized that the longer this uncertainity goes on the worse it is for the Republican party to expand its tent. You can not ignore the demographics in the next 20 years. The problem the Speaker is facing are the tea party repubs. who want no part of it and are only looking at the trees and not the forest that will be there in a political sense. It is a no win situation for the Republicans.

[jainen]

>>Anyone who breaks a law is a criminal.<<

Well, that's a goofy thing to say. Not all laws are criminal laws. A person in your profession ought to know, for example, that the Internal Revenue Code is not enforced by the F.B.I.

>>I do NOT see is any Government attempt to enforce the current laws about illegal immigrants that are on the books now.<<

That's another goofy thing to say, although it may very well be true in your case. I guess you don't know anybody doing police work, or you would have heard them complain about how over-zealous I.C.E. is. Many a true criminal escapes jail by submitting to Immigration's civil code hearings and taking a free ride back home.

[TaxMan60601]

Lol, jainen, I find you very clever and nice guy.

On the other hand, please read this article (there are other like this in the net), about the voluntary nature of the income tax and please share your thoughts with us again. Thank you.

In the same time I'd like to clearly say, to all here on this board - please do not take this as an attempt of offence, however I was very confused, first time I have read this article ...

Also the last thing I want is to bring some trouble to this board!, so Eric, please get rid off of my post as soon as you find it appropriate.

Yet, I would be grateful if someone can share something else or just a different point of view about this foundation.

Lastly, from my experience I can say that (it seems like) the only thing they care is a tax return to be filed and taxes paid. It does't matter if you are legal or illegal resident alien or citizen once you pay you tribute. Of course, it happens from time to time with them to issue an adjustment, rejection or owe money notice but as soon as the taxpayer whine "Oh no, I didn't knew it! (while I was e-filing with HRB or TurboTax and claiming the credits)! I am a non-resident!" and ... the rest you know it. rant over!

[jainen]

>>the voluntary nature of the income tax<<

Some in the tax protester movement are greedy fools who don't appreciate the freedoms we enjoy in America. But most are greedy cynics taking advantage of the greedy fools.