jainen Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 >>you get a check from the company whether you spend it fixing your car or at Vagas<< Oh, great comparison! For insurance purposes rcooper's daughter should be considered as personal property, so I guess the damages reflect the loss in her fair market value. (Apparently the claims adjuster didn't think her injuries were too serious because otherwise they would have just totaled her.) I'm also relieved to learn that hospitals have found a way to finance operations by borrowing from patients, albeit at a high APR. As for the hospital agreeing to pay a kickback -- I'm sorry, I meant a "cash discount" -- from that insurance money, hey the insurance company was going to pay it anyway, so who cares, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 they could have asked the insurance company instead of the patient if they wanted the early pay discount! All they simply did was factor their receivable with the patient being the factor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 as i said in post #2, the discount IS due from the hospital. It should be paid to the school ins co. z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 >>It should be paid to the school ins co<< I even disagree with this. Let's make up some numbers. Say the undiscounted bill would be $10000 and the primary insurance will pay 75% or $7500. The policy holder is responsible for 25%, or $2500, but your interpretation in this thread is that the price will go down $250 with certain payment arrangements. Why should the supplemental insurance get that whole $250? If the hospital has agreed to accept $9750 in full payment, then the primary policy only needs to cover 75% of that price, which is $7312.50. The balance charged to the supplemental is $2437.50. It would seem therefore that the supplemental only overpaid by $62.50 while the primary overpaid by $187.50. (Whatever the patient overpaid has of course already been completely returned.) Well, I think that's a ridiculous scenario, not least because the patient took back the payment that would have generated the discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 >>If the hospital has agreed to accept $9750 in full payment,<< The hospital made no such arrangement. The agreement was to pay patients share in full, which was done. z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 >>Why should the supplemental insurance get that whole $250?<< I agree that patient cannot keep the $250. I would send it to the supplemental ins since thay pay "what is left". I really don't care how the ins companies subrogate between themselves. z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 I even disagree with this. Wow. Opportunity of a lifetime (OK, about five years) for me to come up with something really sarcastic. I got nothin. Crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 RC, Does the state you live in have a state agency such as an Insurance Commission? We do in Louisiana and can call their legal department with questions/complaints such as what you are dealing with. I agree with KC and others that your original agreement should be honored. If you do have such an agency and receive a favorable opinion, the "Insurance Commission" is normally far more scary to providers, etc.. than "insurance fraud". Good Luck! Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 RC, Does the state you live in have a state agency such as an Insurance Commission? We do in Louisiana and can call their legal department with questions/complaints such as what you are dealing with. I agree with KC and others that your original agreement should be honored. If you do have such an agency and receive a favorable opinion, the "Insurance Commission" is normally far more scary to providers, etc.. than "insurance fraud". Good Luck! Cathy Yes, Cathy, I actually submitted the question to them Thursday of last week. No one has responded. I did not name the provider, and I will not pursue the matter with the hospital even if the Commission's response agrees with my opinion. I asked the question here to see if I had completey lost my mind just because I was insulted. Not completely. Ha ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 >>I actually submitted the question to them Thursday<< I'm glad that you followed the advice I gave you the day before. I can't decide if I am appalled or amused at the concept so passionately endorsed in this thread, that a patient should be able to make a side deal with a hospital to pocket insurance money by submitting a claim for more than the actual costs. I urge you to follow through with your question to the commission. I'm sure they will answer after they stop laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 >>I actually submitted the question to them Thursday<< I'm glad that you followed the advice I gave you the day before. I can't decide if I am appalled or amused at the concept so passionately endorsed in this thread, that a patient should be able to make a side deal with a hospital to pocket insurance money by submitting a claim for more than the actual costs. I urge you to follow through with your question to the commission. I'm sure they will answer after they stop laughing. Cheer up - my side deal obviously did not pan out, cause the hospital kept the dough, so there is a silver lining here. I'm glad that poor hospital was able to benefit from my wicked ways. There are so many injustices in life, huh? For example, it would be appalling to steal from an employer. From what I understand, employees sometimes actually spend time doing personal things, like posting on message boards, when their employers think they are working. Sometimes they don't even clock out to do these personal things. Breach of contract, I say. Theft. Lawsey mercy. Lawsey. Mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 >>employees sometimes actually spend time doing personal things, like posting on message boards<< Who's got time for that? I'm too busy researching tax and accounting issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxmannEA Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 You paid them 3 months in advance when the school insurance would have paid the whole balance at a later date. The $250 was the time value of the money. This means that your "loan" of the amount owed was of no value to you while the hospital would surely have charged you substantial interest had payment been late. They charge you interest = good business practice. You charge them interest = insurance fraud. Am I the only one who has a problem with this attitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 You paid them 3 months in advance when the school insurance would have paid the whole balance at a later date. The $250 was the time value of the money. This means that your "loan" of the amount owed was of no value to you while the hospital would surely have charged you substantial interest had payment been late. They charge you interest = good business practice. You charge them interest = insurance fraud. Am I the only one who has a problem with this attitude? To be honest, all I am thinking right now is what kind of MORON am I to submit a question to a government agency? They probably have not responded because they are waiting on results of the full-blown investigation they have launched of me. All because an insolent employee hurt my little pride. I am ready to write everybody a check for $250, no questions, no arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneInAlabama Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 <<I am ready to write everybody a check for $250, no questions, no arguments.>> Since you are in the mood for writing everyone a $250 check, I will accept one. Gene In Alabama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Since you are in the mood for writing everyone a $250 check, I will accept one. Whaa? Oh, sorry. I was watching this strange van with really dark windows and a satellite dish looking thing on the roof that is parked around the corner. There's some sort of zippered opening on one side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 >>I am ready to write everybody a check for $250, no questions, no arguments.<< Please accept my sincere apologies. I thought you were trying to get somebody to give YOU the $250. Naturally, if you had paid it in the first place we wouldn't even need this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Buck up, RC. You did nothing wrong, and you do not owe anyone 25¢, much less $250. They actually owe you, although you are not likely to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 >>employees sometimes actually spend time doing personal things, like posting on message boards<< Who's got time for that? I'm too busy researching tax and accounting issues! TAXMAN SAYS WHat i said-but much clearer. in NY the state insurance board is very powerful and having a family in the insurance business[at many different levels and positions] i know the ins co's fear a contract from them. but your issue isn't with the insurance company as much as with the hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme101060 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I am new here and have been doing a lot of reading and I have to say if the hospital came to you and you offered them a discount of $250.00 to do their taxes you would be in court right now if you had taken that discount back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 >>you offered them a discount... you had taken that discount back. << It was not the hospital that took back the discount. Rcooper took back the payment that supported the discount. The bill was ultimately paid by insurance, to whom a discount was not offered. To say that $250 represents the time value of money is nonsense. It represents the losses and administrative costs of delayed collections from individuals. Interest rates are no more than 5%, while such losses and costs are closer to five times that. In fact, even the cost of complying with the laws concerning insurance payments is probably at least 5%. So when Rcooper's early payment was canceled, so was her discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 >>I am ready to write everybody a check for $250, no questions, no arguments.<< Please accept my sincere apologies. I thought you were trying to get somebody to give YOU the $250. Oh! Well! That explains a lot. Now I understand why you have been so adamant in your disagreement. I mean, that is so unlike you. Silly me; just a misunderstanding! BTW, the check you'll be getting from me is made payable to you and your employer jointly. You should endorse it and forward to him. I'm sure he will allocate the funds properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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