ObamaCare and the IRS

[kcjenkins]

Why did the president compare ObamaCare to the post office? Maybe because the reality would be even worse. Blogger William Jacobson, a Cornell law professor, notes that under the House and Senate ObamaCare bills, the Internal Revenue Service would "play a key role in monitoring and enforcing health care mandates against individual taxpayers":

These reporting provisions would allow the IRS to cross-check income tax returns and health coverage filings, and withhold tax refunds or utilize other collection methods for persons who do not have coverage unless they can prove they have acceptable coverage from some other source. This is similar to the cross-checking the IRS does on income reported separately by the person making the payment and the taxpayer receiving the payment. But for the first time the IRS is not checking for income to tax, but for lack of health coverage.

These provisions should have people interested in privacy greatly concerned. While income information already is reported to the IRS, the IRS traditionally has not received personal health care information about individuals.

They say death and taxes are inevitable. If President Obama has his way, we'll have one-stop shopping. And knowing how the IRS never makes mistakes when cross-matching, that does not scare us, right?

[Wayne Brasch]

That possibility is really scary! Surely Congress would not do that to us, would they?

Wayne Brasch

[kcjenkins]

Well, they wrote it into both the House and the Senate bills, Wayne. Is it any wonder that they wanted to get it passed BEFORE anyone had time to actually read it all?

[jainen]

>>for the first time the IRS is not checking for income to tax<<

If you believe that taxation should not be used for purposes other than revenue, that's a legitimate political opinion. But don't pretend that this is the first time or that it's never been done for public health issues before.

[JohnH]

Yes, jainen is right.

The camel's head has been in the tent for a long time, but now we're seeing the rest of the body begin to make its way inside. And it's a huge camel.

[Catherine]

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/0...constitutional/

[RJM]

Thanks for the cite/site Catherine. This is the best approach to illuminating the massive usurping of individual rights in process by the feds now. I hope this constitutional perspective catches on in the press.

[joanmcq]

how can you call health care a 'massive usurping of individual rights'? Are they taking away your right to purchase private insurance? No. By objecting to this, are you taking away my right to buy affordably priced insurance? yes. How many of those objecting are on Medicare?

[Catherine]

Thanks for the cite/site Catherine. This is the best approach to illuminating the massive usurping of individual rights in process by the feds now. I hope this constitutional perspective catches on in the press.

You're welcome. You can also find online here http://www.constitution.org/constit_.htm the text of the US Constitution plus all amendments. Article 1, Section 8 enumerates the powers of the Federal government. Those were the _only_ powers conferred, and the express purpose was to keep government _out_ of the general affairs of the people. All else was to be left to the states and to individuals.

[JohnH]

Just so we're clear on whether the intent of the present crowd is to take away your right to buy private insurance, here's the ultimate plan straight from the horse's mouth. (Well, maybe from the other end of the horse, but in any case Barney makes his point very succinctly).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BS4C9el98

[RJM]

Thanks John... I watched this, had not seen it before. Catherine, thanks for the reminder about the Constitution. It's on my desktop now, and I will be reading it a few times to shake those old brain cells loose. It would be great if the public schools still taught kids about this document. But it appears to be only cursory in the few cases where I have found that it is being taught. Civics class is way different today than when I grew up!

[JohnH]

Glad to help out.

And just in case anybody is tempted to advance the idea that Barney Frank is just one person or that his deception doesn't represent the prevailing view, here are a few of his cronies clarifiying their dishonest position:

http://commonsense.wbt.com/index.cfm;jsess...c665574f25554e5

Just click on the YouTube clip to get an earful.

[Jack from Ohio]

Where is it written that anyone in this country has a RIGHT to health care or health insurance?

"...Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

:scratch_head:

[Catherine]

Where is it written that anyone in this country has a RIGHT to health care or health insurance?

"...Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

And some people don't own their own homes. Is a permanent place to live ALSO a fundamental right?

Some people don't own a car. If they cannot afford one, should one be provided for them by the government?

Where does it end?

Flat screen TV's? The right to keep and bear a washer/dryer set? How much can or SHOULD the government do?

The founders wanted the government to do the LEAST amount possible. Individuals, states, and then PRIVATE groups were to do the rest. Because inevitably a government that starts interfering with private actions ends with tyranny.

[JohnH]

There's an excellent article about the healthcare system and the insurance system in the current issue of The Atlantic. It's entitled "How American Health Care Killed My Father" by David Goldhill. In the interest of full disclosure, he states early in the article that he's a Democrat, but the article is definitely not political - he isn't a hired gun attempting to promote one agenda or the other, IMO.

Although I disagree with a few of his assertions here & there, I find it to be overall a comprehensive assessment of the many structural, functional, and philosophical problems with our current system. ( I especially appreciated his point that much of the health care system is so low-tech that "my dry cleaner uses a more elaborate system to track shirts than this hospital uses to track treatment.")

I didn't care much for his cumbersome solution because I think it's unworkable, but that takes nothing away from his excellent description of how we got to where we are. It's a thoughtful, enlightening article and well worth the time it will take to read all 13 pages. Highly recommended for anyone wanting to gain additional insights in this problem affecting all of us.

[Catherine]

There's an excellent article about the healthcare system and the insurance system in the current issue of The Atlantic. It's entitled "How American Health Care Killed My Father" by David Goldhill. <snip>

And we have a close family friend who would be dead today in either Britain or Canada.

He had kidney cancer and it was pretty far advanced and had metastasized in several places by the time it was found. In EITHER the UK or Canada, he would have been told to go home and get his affairs in order.

Instead, in the US, he was able to to get a new treatment. Much of the cost was NOT covered by insurance but they started treatment anyway -- and the family held fundraisers. The treatment worked for him.

He is alive, well, there is no evidence of disease three years later, and he has become a national expert on what they now term "e-patient" protocols and has been asked to speak at large medical conventions.

I'll stick with the current US system, thank you very much. There is no access to care issue. There is an insurance reimbursement issue. And more regulation will NOT cure that but rather make it worse. Additionally, it will RESTRICT access to care, causing a whole slew of new, real, serious, problems.

Catherine

[kcjenkins]

There's an excellent article about the healthcare system and the insurance system in the current issue of The Atlantic. It's entitled "How American Health Care Killed My Father" by David Goldhill.

Here is a link to that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

It is a good article. I think one of the big misconceptions around is that conservatives think the healthcare system is fine, and liberals think it's terrible. In fact, most of all of us think that there are lots of things that need fixing, we just disagree about the methods that will do the best job of fixing them. And, of course, some of us are horrified at the idea of getting the IRS involved in the process.

[Kea]

As long as we are reading articles - how about one from one of Newsweek's Senior Editors who writes science articles?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212131

[JohnH]

I suppose now we're going to have to endure the shameless remarketing of "ObamaCare" by changing it to "KennedyCare".

Politicians are expert at finding new ways to put lipstick on the pig, and this opportunity is just TOO tempting..

Makes me want to turn off the TV and quit reading/listening to the news.

[Jack from Ohio]

I suppose now we're going to have to endure the shameless remarketing of "ObamaCare" by changing it to "KennedyCare".

Politicians are expert at finding new ways to put lipstick on the pig, and this opportunity is just TOO tempting..

Makes me want to turn off the TV and quit reading/listening to the news.

Ditto!! Makes me want to quit, but instead, I sent e-mail to my Congressman and my Senators. Made phone calls and wrote handwritten letters as well.

[joanmcq]

T'wouldn't be any worse than the shameless marketing of Reagan. I was at my dad's house taking care of him the week Reagan died. Since my dad was a Fox news fan, we had it on all day. All Reagan, all the time. hours of commentary on how long the line of people waiting to pay their respects when nothing else was happening. Then, of course, the deification of Regan by y'all conservatives.

I wasn't a fan of everything Kennedy did, but I have always admired how he and his family dedicated their lives to helping those on the bottom rungs of society.

[JohnH]

Nobody's tying to deify St Ronaldus. :)