Jack from Ohio Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Making higher income tax clients pay higher fees to subsidize your income to compensate for you charging low fees to lower income people is welfare by definition! More of what is destroying Capitalism in America. More successful people are penalized to support the less successful simply because they are MORE SUCCESSFUL. I loathe that approach to fees. Rant over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytax Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Jack from Ohio, Several things ... 1/ Thanks for the ATX support, it did help me decide on staying with them, so I appreciate your input, help and time. 2/ Agree with most about taking from rich to subsidize; with some exceptions but we probably agree mostly there too. ( a helping hand for those who truly need and will try to "stop" the help when they can do for themselves --- is good //// giving to someone who "CHOOSES" NOT to try but can/could except it is easier to take, than do for themselves -- can be and unfortunately many times might be "welfare"). 3/ Things could be worst (I try to find a "silver lining" in most things (usually successful at it too)) --- think --- France --- they have a "new" (actually old and we did have something like this at one point in the past) -- a 50% automatic tax on over 1mil euro's (about 1.3 mil US today) on companies paying (as I understand it) their exec's . At least right now we are just about 45% fed on the individual side (39.9% fed top, 3.8% Medicare, .09% something else -- I may have my names mixed up, but the govt. wants that much). And we still have the state and locals to add in ---- hhmmmm... maybe a flat 50% might be less --- have to think about this. Have a good one; today, tomorrow and future ---- Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted January 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Making higher income tax clients pay higher fees to subsidize your income to compensate for you charging low fees to lower income people is welfare by definition! More of what is destroying Capitalism in America. More successful people are penalized to support the less successful simply because they are MORE SUCCESSFUL. I loathe that approach to fees. Rant over. Jack- You know what I loathe? When I see the prices some people charge....I consider it nothing more than theft by taking advantage of the uninformed & helpless. If I save a grad student with huge loans....who has a part-time job so he doesn't need to eat Rahmen Noodle Soup daily....a few dollars in tax prep fees.....well, I think that's pretty nice of me. You know...what goes around comes around. I'm sorry you see this as destroying Capitalism....but I see it as being a nice person....and as payback for help that I got when I was young and poor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Jack- You know what I loathe? When I see the prices some people charge....I consider it nothing more than theft by taking advantage of the uninformed & helpless. If I save a grad student with huge loans....who has a part-time job so he doesn't need to eat Rahmen Noodle Soup daily....a few dollars in tax prep fees.....well, I think that's pretty nice of me. You know...what goes around comes around. I'm sorry you see this as destroying Capitalism....but I see it as being a nice person....and as payback for help that I got when I was young and poor. When you charge more to clients simply because they are more successful and have more money, that is what I loathe. Like our tiered tax system. Then you justify it by saying you give price breaks to lower income people because you charge the higher income people more. No mention of how complex or difficult the tax returns are. Sorry, that is NOT capitalism. That is moving toward socialism, and I loathe it!! Charge by what your professional services demand and are worth with NO CONSIDERATION of the income of the client. THAT is capitalism and ethical besides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 MsTabbykats I agree with you that sometimes we have to use our heart and look at the situation. So if you want to give a price break to a student, go right ahead, because it make you feel good that you helped someone. I had done free tax returns for a woman who was in the 4th stage of cancer because I knew she was the main breadwinner of the family and when she could not work, living on disability insurance things were really tight for her family. The money she saved on my fees meant her kids got to eat a better meal with that money or she had money to buy meds or pay rent etc. The waived fees did NOT make me poor or change my lifestyle. At the end of our lives we will be answering to a higher power! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Everyone is missing my point. To give a discount for whatever reason, is up to the individual tax preparer. However, to charge "rich" or "high income" clients more simply because they can afford it, so that your income stream will not suffer is unacceptable to the ethics and morals I have been taught and choose to follow. The mindset that the higher income people should pay more just because, is the beginning of what has put our country on the downhill slope we are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think I now understand your point, Jack, although after your first post I did not. I do agree that someone should not be overcharged just 'because they can afford it'. Of course, normally they do pay more because their returns are usually more complex, but it should not be further inflated just to offset a discount to someone else. In fairness, any 'compassionate discount' I give should be out of my pocket, not some other client that I overcharged to 'make up the difference'. I think that is what you meant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think I now understand your point, Jack, although after your first post I did not. I do agree that someone should not be overcharged just 'because they can afford it'. Of course, normally they do pay more because their returns are usually more complex, but it should not be further inflated just to offset a discount to someone else. In fairness, any 'compassionate discount' I give should be out of my pocket, not some other client that I overcharged to 'make up the difference'. I think that is what you meant. EXACTLY!!! What if the prices you pay at Burger King were decided by the owner based on your income level?? Think about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 EXACTLY!!! What if the prices you pay at Burger King were decided by the owner based on your income level?? Think about it.... Do fast food chains discriminate based on income? http://people.brandeis.edu/~kgraddy/published%20papers/GraddyK_jbes1997.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think I now understand your point, Jack, although after your first post I did not. I do agree that someone should not be overcharged just 'because they can afford it'. Of course, normally they do pay more because their returns are usually more complex, but it should not be further inflated just to offset a discount to someone else. In fairness, any 'compassionate discount' I give should be out of my pocket, not some other client that I overcharged to 'make up the difference'. I think that is what you meant. This is it in a nutshell. Generally the higher income clients DO have more complex returns, but not always. Therefore, they are charged accordingly. However, if I choose to do several returns pro bono, which I do, it does not affect the price paid by any other client. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pencil Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Truth is....the fee will be based on how much work I need to do....and their income and/or lifestyle. I'll take Tabby's side in this. Most of my wealthy clients pay at least 25% more. There are several reasons for this, but not just because they can afford it or to offset somebody else's discount. Wealthy people expect to pay for first class service. Others only want to pay for basics if that's all they need. It isn't much different from telling a shoebox client I must add a bookkeeping charge, except wealthy clients already assume I will do whatever ancillary work is needed. Same with prioritizing. Premium clients may get special treatment in packaging or delivery--whatever they need without worrying about nickels and dimes. They know they can call throughout the year for simple planning questions or an IRS letter without going on the clock, so in that sense the extra fee is like a retainer. In a different view it's like bumping the fee for a troublesome client, except the extra handholding is already assumed. Another common reason for a higher fee is that a wealthy client's 1040, even if simple, may relate to a package of services. Perhaps it has to coordinate with a corporate or trust return. Maybe I throw in a dependent's return without separate charge. Also, even if a wealthy client has a simple return my E&O exposure may be higher, an intangible but real cost of overhead. So, yeah. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have a doctor with a W-2 for about $3,000,000 and that's it. Sch A for his co-op and mtge and charity. His fee is the same as for a student that has just a W-2 and maybe itemizes. I don't charge more just for high income but on the other side of this, a low income business or one that shows a lose is going to pay the same as a profitable one since the forms and schedules are the same; just with smaller numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraEA Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Face it folks, it's hard not to charge people who make lots of money more than those who make little. Maybe those who charge strictly by time (and somehow are able to keep accurate track of their time) can do it. I know an electrician who charges the very wealthy owner of our office building a fortune to add something like an electrical plug that takes a half hour to install. This same guy has done electrical work at our home and his prices are reasonable. When someone's income is in the 7 digits or high 6 digits, it's human nature to want to charge them more than $250 for their return. You almost think that if you charged them that little, they'd think they weren't getting a top-notch job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Someone with a W2 of $3m is NOT going to come to me, so I don't have to worry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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