BulldogTom Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I am working an OIC for a multiple year non-filer. I won't go into the details, this is a question about procedures. The original offer was made and rejected, as expected, by the service. We have sent in a request for reconsideration and request to move to appeals after the reconsideration per the IRS policy instructions. My wife takes a phone call from the agent in Brookhaven this morning, and she says I need to talk to her right away or she will be forced to take action. I call her back but I am not in my office (I am at my day job) and I don't have the records. She says she can't talk to me without the verification information, which I totally understand. She then says if I can't call her back by Monday, she will have to move the file to appeals (I guess that is what she meant by take action). My question - don't I want this to go to appeals anyway? If they are going to blow off the reconsideration by putting an unreasonable time line on the reconsideration, why don't I just let it move forward. I am not trying to be difficult with the agent, but for her to say that I have 1 business day to contact her or the process moves forward, perhaps I just want it to go forward. FYI the appeal letter needed to be in by 12/20, and was delivered by the post office on the 17th. I don't think we are going to get a good answer from her anyway. This is the farthest I have ever gone wiith an OIC, so I am very green as to the procedures at the reconsideration/appeal process for an OIC. Any advise is appreciated. Tom Hollister, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I went to a class that covered this topic about 6 weeks ago taught by a CPA/Attorney that specialized in this area. Basically he said that as long as you had solid documentation, you were almost always better going to appeals, assuming that your application and documentation met all the requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pencil Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 if I can't call her back by Monday, she will have to move the file to appeals Sounds odd, but I'd guess it's legit. You are entitled to due process, so the time line was probably set by your own action in filing for Appeal. If she can take another look informally, what have you got to lose? I don't understand what she could want that you didn't already provide, but on the other hand, Appeals might not be very appealing if they think you rushed to them without a good faith effort at negotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Jainen's point is the only worry I would have, Tom. I've been in a position one time fairly similar to yours, where at the appeal level they tried to say that I could not move forward because I had not used all the options available to me before Appeals. Thankfully, I was able to prove that I had, but it is something that they [appeals] can and sometimes do use against you. So do respond in writing, even tho you hope she does kick it to appeals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 The overriding point, which I have made to my clients several times, is that there is no legal requirement for the Treasury to accept an offer. They can say "no", and there ain't squat you can do about it. So I want to be as cooperative as possible. But I do want to get to the next level where I have a chance to speak to someone who is not just pushing numbers around. I might be able to BS my way to a satisfactory resolution for the client that will clean this mess up forever. But I fear the answer will still be "no". Tom Hollister, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 The overriding point, which I have made to my clients several times, is that there is no legal requirement for the Treasury to accept an offer. They can say "no", and there ain't squat you can do about it. So I want to be as cooperative as possible. But I do want to get to the next level where I have a chance to speak to someone who is not just pushing numbers around. I might be able to BS my way to a satisfactory resolution for the client that will clean this mess up forever. But I fear the answer will still be "no". Tom Hollister, CA I am assuming you have received a big retainer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I am assuming you have received a big retainer? Nope. I am getting paid in freindship and excellent home cooked meals from his wife when I come over to discuss his situation. Longtime friend came to me and needed to clean up his afairs. I never realized he was not filing his taxes, and I have known him for a long time. After he lost his job, he decided to go into the ministry and he felt like he needed to clean this part of his life up. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's...". Took us nearly a year to get all the returns filed. That was no fun. There is no way they will ever be able to pay back all the interest and penalties, let alone the taxes they owe. It is just not going to happen. He makes next to nothing, and she is retired and working part time at the church as a secretary. If I put them on an installment plan, they will not be able to pay more than the interest going forward. I put that amortization schedule in the packet that I sent to the agent showing that even at 3%, the government is not going to get paid back. The agent's report shows ability to pay in full. Lots of funky math in her calculations. Like 25K that she says they have in FMV of the bank account. The statement shows $250 in the account. Interesting math. On the other hand, it ain't my fault, it is theirs. I know this, and so do they. But I am still going to give it the best shot I can. Tom Hollister, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 An EA I know here in Mass who specializes in OICs recommended to me several years ago to put in a very lowball offer, get it rejected, and get to Appeals as quickly as possible. The idea is that only the folks in Appeals have any real authority to negotiate -- the "regular" office staff are only able to agree to near-full-payments. Worked for me the two times I went all the way through. After which I decided that trying to do OIC's as a one-person office is madness; tons of paperwork up front, the IRS offices ignore you for months, after which time you get maybe two weeks to re-do all that paperwork while every other client's work gets ignored. No, thanks - I have easier ways to hurt myself! YMMV. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 OIC fees are going up in 2014! The fee for processing an offer to compromise before January 1,2014, is $150. The fee for processing an offer to compromise on or after January1, 2014, is $186. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Update - I called the agent today and the conversation took about 1 minute. "please confirm the taxpayers ID". "Thank you. I recieved your appeal letter, and I have made a few changes based on the information you provided. However, I still find that the taxpayer can pay in full through an installment agreement. I am forwarding this on to appeals". "Thank you and Happy Hollidays". So now I go on to appeals. Tom Hollister, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pencil Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 "please confirm the taxpayers ID" Congratulations on getting basic agreement from the agent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Good news, Tom. Now you get to deal with someone who actually has the ability to take the facts and make a reasonable decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Update - I called the agent today and the conversation took about 1 minute. "please confirm the taxpayers ID". "Thank you. I recieved your appeal letter, and I have made a few changes based on the information you provided. However, I still find that the taxpayer can pay in full through an installment agreement. I am forwarding this on to appeals". "Thank you and Happy Hollidays". So now I go on to appeals. TomHollister, CAI would say you have one chance in a hundred of getting that OIC approved. Situations do not matter. Assets and living expenses are all that the IRS uses for determination. Especially for multi-year non-filers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max W Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 An EA I know here in Mass who specializes in OICs recommended to me several years ago to put in a very lowball offer, get it rejected, and get to Appeals as quickly as possible. The idea is that only the folks in Appeals have any real authority to negotiate -- the "regular" office staff are only able to agree to near-full-payments. That might have been good strategy a few years ago. Then, the IRS threw up all kinds of barriers to getting an successful OIC, but now they are working to get them approved as quickly as possible. This was due to the TAO's report that said the IRS was losing out by rejecting so many offers. In our office, we have submitted about 30 OIC's and so far 10 have been approved with little or no hassle. On my part, I have submitted 14 OIC's and the 1st 4 were approved. I expect a few to fail, clients that were not able to provide concrete information or unable to keep up on their Est. tax pymts. There were some minor tweaks in the final amount, but nothing worth disputing. Most surprisingly one client had more income than what the IRS accepted. He receives quarterly bonuses and the IRS said bonuses do no count in the income calculation. (we always understood this for once a year bonuses, but for regular ongoing bonuses?, the IRS made the client a gift.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richcpaman Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 Well, I am about to submit an OIC. I like what Max has to say.... Want to keep the tax debt inthe entity, and not out to the person. Merry Christmas All! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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