Do You Get One Every Year Too?

[MsTabbyKats]

I'm not sure of the venting policy on this forum...but I just gotta vent. And wonder if this happens to others too..........

Mr Client....claims to NOT live in NYC and every year for the last 15 years I put his post office box which is in NYC as his mailing address, and his "out of NYC address" as his permanent address.

He got red flagged as living in NYC. (Bottom line...he used a street address in NYC with the NYS Dept of Labor and his wife had NYC withholding for the 3rd year)

I don't get involved in my clients lives....I don't care where he sleeps. I go by the info on the W-2.

So...he calls me....yelling at me on the phone that I made a mistake with his address and I had to call NYS and fix it. I mean really obnoxious and arrogant. Now I know NYS wouldn't talk to me about this and I told him to call, and he got very hostile.

There's more to the story, but here's the summary.

He e-mails me and says "if I were Dr. 'a Jewish name' (and I'm Jewish) I would be getter better treatment."

Wrote back that I wouldn't dignify that with a comment....and a reminder about how much I helped him in the past.

I planned to finish up with this "issue"...and then drop him for next year. (There is a line he crossed with the obvious Jewish comment.)

No need....he beat me to the punch....he sent me an e-mail this morning severing our relationship claiming that I was rude and condescending.

It seems I get one a year...that really gets to me personally.

Anyone else with a story?

[joanmcq]

Oh vent all you want! We can commiserate on our clients.....Tax Almanac even has a thread titled "Dear Client" where you can write what you really want to say. Maybe we should start one here? Or maybe you just did?

[mrichman333]

I'm not sure of the venting policy on this forum...but I just gotta vent. And wonder if this happens to others too..........

Mr Client....claims to NOT live in NYC and every year for the last 15 years I put his post office box which is in NYC as his mailing address, and his "out of NYC address" as his permanent address.

He got red flagged as living in NYC. (Bottom line...he used a street address in NYC with the NYS Dept of Labor and his wife had NYC withholding for the 3rd year)

I don't get involved in my clients lives....I don't care where he sleeps. I go by the info on the W-2.

So...he calls me....yelling at me on the phone that I made a mistake with his address and I had to call NYS and fix it. I mean really obnoxious and arrogant. Now I know NYS wouldn't talk to me about this and I told him to call, and he got very hostile.

There's more to the story, but here's the summary.

He e-mails me and says "if I were Dr. 'a Jewish name' (and I'm Jewish) I would be getter better treatment."

Wrote back that I wouldn't dignify that with a comment....and a reminder about how much I helped him in the past.

I planned to finish up with this "issue"...and then drop him for next year. (There is a line he crossed with the obvious Jewish comment.)

No need....he beat me to the punch....he sent me an e-mail this morning severing our relationship claiming that I was rude and condescending.

It seems I get one a year...that really gets to me personally.

Anyone else with a story?

Vent.

[Kea]

We had one last year. I remember it well as I contributed to that one. And I've been pretty lucky to have had very few PITA clients.

[JohnH]

--> He e-mails me and says "if I were Dr. 'a Jewish name' (and I'm Jewish) I would be getter better treatment." <---

I think he told you all you need to know about his moral compass right there. I'd have decided to drop him as well.

[MsTabbyKats]

My e-mail to him:

Dear Client-

Please find attached the letter I will fax to the NYS Dept. of Taxation on Monday.

I cannot use your wife's letter from the Department of Labor as evidence of her address because this letter clearly states that you are a Bronx resident. In addition, all of the states computer systems are linked. If you put down a Bronx residence for the Dept of Labor, the Department of Taxation and Finance has access to the same information. This may have triggered the letter you received.

They may not accept what I'm faxing because you didn't sign the letter they sent you.

Just for your reference, the fee that you pay me is for tax preparation only. It doesn't include follow-up work, unless the follow-up is necessary because of something due to an error in my preparation.

His response to me:

I wasn't aware I was suppose to sign

anything. My recollection of the letter

I furnished you as Aljamice at a Mt.

Vernon address. I addition follow up

was a result of the tax return not

being properly done with a Westchester

address . I'm surprised your taking

such offense to some leg work.

If I was Dr. Zaretsky would I get the

same ill treatment ?

And my response:

Your return was 100% properly done...with the same address as in prior years.
Mailing address...post office in the Bronx
Permanent address....White Plains
See the attachments...2012 and 2009 (which is as far back as my records go)
Both show you as a White Plains resident....same mailing address....same permanent address

This was caused either by you giving the Dept of Labor your address in the Bronx or your wife having NYC tax withheld. It has nothing to do with the address on the tax return.

I just checked your 2011 return, and your wife also had NYC withholding by the same employer. But, the Dept of Taxation didn't "flag it" for that year. Again...same mailing address; same permanent address.

If they accept her W-2 as evidence for 2012, then it was because of the NYC withholding.

I'm also attaching the first page of the unemployment letter...showing your address in the Bronx.

I really don't know who Dr Zaretsky is....but you are implying I would give him better treatment for whatever reason. I won't even dignify that comment with a response.

Ken, if you don't think I treat you well, I'd like you to think back about past years. Think real hard. Do you really think Joe Blow at H&R Block would have treated you so well?

Sleep on it..........and think about it.

And his break-up e-mail:

I will call myself and we can sever

our business relationship as well.

Your phone demeanor and condescending speech were surprisingly rude. No further

explanation or comment is necessary.

[michaelmars]

While i love your attitude i think you invested too much time on this already. He is a jerk and you should move on. Just be carefull in your emails that you don't admit to knowing that he was really had a residence in the bronx.

Being jewish myself, my answer would have been much more colorful. Lets hope he is the type to not keep old copies of his return so when other years get questioned he will have to groval and pay for you to supply copies.

[jainen]

>>I made a mistake with his address and I had to call NYS and fix it<<

Tell him you will be happy to represent him. Of course they won't talk to you without a power of attorney, so he needs to come in to sign that. Also an engagement letter and a check for your retainer.

Then do a good job for your long-term client! Department of Labor follows its own rules, unrelated to Department of Taxation laws. My guess is New York is looking for easy money from computer matches followed by computer letters, but won't put up much of a fight for an individual. Don't worry about your client's reaction to the letter. It's perfectly normal--taxing agencies work hard to foster such reactions, including blame-the-accountant. I mean, really--they're making a big deal because someone managed to hang on to a job in New York for three years?

I always liked H&R Block's policy--examination is an ordinary and expected part of the tax system, but our clients have the advantage of professional representation.

[Jack from Ohio]

And his break-up e-mail:

I will call myself and we can sever

our business relationship as well.

Your phone demeanor and condescending speech were surprisingly rude. No further

explanation or comment is necessary.

You are better off without him as a client.

[jainen]

>>You are better off without him as a client<<

Maybe, if he doesn't gossip about you. I get the feeling he will, though, and I think it would be better if he were telling his friends how you stood up for him. I don't know about the phone call but your letter sounded unreasonably defensive to me. Why should you take it personally like some kind of ethnic slur?

I don't like the "same as last year" attitude in a tax professional any more than in a tax client. Pull out the book and find out what it says about residency.

[Terry O]

"Dear John.

- - - - - -"

Go for it - -you are MUCH better of without him!

[Jack from Ohio]

>>You are better off without him as a client<<

Maybe, if he doesn't gossip about you. I get the feeling he will, though, and I think it would be better if he were telling his friends how you stood up for him. I don't know about the phone call but your letter sounded unreasonably defensive to me. Why should you take it personally like some kind of ethnic slur?

I don't like the "same as last year" attitude in a tax professional any more than in a tax client. Pull out the book and find out what it says about residency.

I doubt that anyone who knows him takes much stock in what he says. I know the type. Lots of people smile and nod, while in their minds they dismiss his rantings as fertilizer.

[MsTabbyKats]

>>You are better off without him as a client<<

Maybe, if he doesn't gossip about you. I get the feeling he will, though, and I think it would be better if he were telling his friends how you stood up for him. I don't know about the phone call but your letter sounded unreasonably defensive to me. Why should you take it personally like some kind of ethnic slur?

I don't like the "same as last year" attitude in a tax professional any more than in a tax client. Pull out the book and find out what it says about residency.

My only error was that when he made the Dr Zaretsky comment.....I should have responded by severing our relationship first.

If anyone even hints at anything anti-Semitic...they get on my "banned list". I don't prostitute myself.

The phone call was...and I quote....not paraphrase:

"I got this letter from New York. You said I was getting $57 back. They say I owe $1100. I don't want to deal with this. You made a mistake. You didn't put the Weschester address on the tax return. I'm putting this in an envelope and sending it to you. I can't even bother reading it. It's your fault. You fix it." This was in a very nasty, aggressive manner.

If he had said...

OMG...I got this letter! Can you help settle this? I would have said..."Yes. I'm a little busy right now, but please send it to me and I'll see what's going on."

There has never been a customer...in 20 years...that I refused to "follow-up" for free. The difference is the others are grateful. He was insulting (my work) and demanding.

I work out of my dining room. I never advertise...yet I get tons of referrals (never from this guy). My clients all seem to love me. When I get an e-mail...I respond within minutes (except if I'm sleeping or not home). I don't think anyone could give better customer service than me. So, with that being said...just imagine how he sounded on the phone to get me aggravated.

[Jack from Ohio]

My only error was that when he made the Dr Zaretsky comment.....I should have responded by severing our relationship first.

If anyone even hints at anything anti-Semitic...they get on my "banned list". I don't prostitute myself.

The phone call was...and I quote....not paraphrase:

"I got this letter from New York. You said I was getting $57 back. They say I owe $1100. I don't want to deal with this. You made a mistake. You didn't put the Weschester address on the tax return. I'm putting this in an envelope and sending it to you. I can't even bother reading it. It's your fault. You fix it." This was in a very nasty, aggressive manner.

If he had said...

OMG...I got this letter! Can you help settle this? I would have said..."Yes. I'm a little busy right now, but please send it to me and I'll see what's going on."

There has never been a customer...in 20 years...that I refused to "follow-up" for free. The difference is the others are grateful. He was insulting (my work) and demanding.

I work out of my dining room. I never advertise...yet I get tons of referrals (never from this guy). My clients all seem to love me. When I get an e-mail...I respond within minutes (except if I'm sleeping or not home). I don't think anyone could give better customer service than me. So, with that being said...just imagine how he sounded on the phone to get me aggravated.

TWO THUMBS UP!! You are better off without him. No need to tolerate anti-Semetic comments or actions from anyone!! You go girl!!

[SFA]

I agree with jainen. Stay professional. Sometimes the criticism hurts more when there is a kernal of truth? I know from experience.

when clients are frustrated, sometimes they don't say it in a perfect way. Forgive where you can, fix what you can, and move on when you can.

[michaelmars]

so let me get this straight, he has a residence in NYC that he doesn't want disclosed on his return yet You made a mistake? He is commiting tax fraud which you Should Not represent him for. Does he have a log?, the new proceedure is any day you come into NY even if you sleep out of the city, is counted as a nyc day. hit 180 of them and you are a city resident no matter where you sleep. does his e-z pass show he comes into the city 180 days, he is a resident even if he only comes in for 1 hours. this is a huge money maker for NYC and just getting worse.

as for the ethnic slur, for me thats an automatic dismissal of a client.

[taxxcpa]

The best thing you can do is drop this guy as a client. Even if he hadn't made the Dr Zaretsky comment, anyone who gets that angry even if you did something wrong is not worth having as a client.

I had a client like that once. He complained always. Once I even got a call from his bank where he had been complaining about something they had done that supposedly affected his tax return. Once he complained because I had combined two of his figures into one figure to enter on the tax return.

It was a $600 tax return, but it was $700 worth of trouble having to listen to him.

[MsTabbyKats]

Michael-

I don't know where he lives. His W-2 has, and has always had a PO Box in NYC. His permanent address is, and has always been out of NYC...at mommy's house. Since I know him he's been married and divorced twice (#2 is just about final). He's had numerous girlfriends. He may not know where he lives. He claims that the street address he has in NYC is just a mailing address. I figured it was better to keep him with a PO Box, since not many people live in post office boxes, and it was right by his job.

You are not a resident of NYC if you come into the city for a day. NYC has millions of people who commute here to work....every day. They don't pay NYC tax. They aren't residents. I think you are confusing this with something else (I forget the schedule...but it's for out of state residents who have multiple jobs....not all of them being in NYC...and the NYC income is a per centage of the total income.....I haven't need this for years so I forget the specifics)

[MsTabbyKats]

My final word on this:

NYS said that if this was caused by his wife having NYC withholding...all that was necessary was a letter from her employer stating that the withholding was in error (her W-2 has an out of NYC address). But...wait...she was terminated...and is in the middle of an unemployment dispute now...so she does not want to ask for this letter.

Proof of residency is also the driver's license...which I was going to ask him for before he "severed our relationship". That, with the W-2s and the history should have been adequate.

Then again...the letter may have been generated because he used his NYC street address at the Dept of Labor...which would be pretty hard to dispute.

I don't know how others feel...but I won't be treated like a doormat by a client. Treat me with respect, or go elsewhere.

[michaelmars]

I HAVE had a few nexus residence audits and the position is, if you have a home in nyc [owned or leased] unless you rent it out you are a resident. there is an attorney that lectures on this all the time and she has built a practice in fighting these cases. the only way to move out of nyc if you work there is to get rid of your city home. this is a city issue not state since for example if you actually reside n NJ then you pay nys on your wages and get a NJ credit so for state purposes there is very little effect but add in the city 4.3% and you get screwed.

[jainen]

>>My clients all seem to love me.<<

Well duh! If they didn't like you they would be someone else's client! This one trusted you for fifteen years, but apparently that was just data entry. When he really needed help you weren't there for him. Why not? If you think he might be a NYC resident then you have not done your job. Anything else, you should at least offer to help him (for appropriate fee, of course).

Zaretsky is simply a name from eastern Europe, not indicative of religion. I can't guess what the reference is, and you say you don't know either. Maybe a recent personality in the news.

In our industry we face fairly desperate taxing agencies with lots of fancy technology. Get used to it--they are going to cross-reference addresses and we need to protect our clients (and ourselves). Presumably you reported the NYC income and don't dispute that the wife works there, so I REALLY don't understand why you won't stand behind your work.

[kcjenkins]

I think you are a bit over the line, Jainen, on this one. It's not a matter of his not standing behind his work. It's a matter of not being expected to put up with such a rude demand. I think he went further than he needed to, IMHO. I'd have fired him after that first attack.

[MsTabbyKats]

Jainen-

Zaretsky is 100% Jewish from Poland. Zaretski is 100% Polish. I told him "I don't know who Dr. Zaretsky is." I actually do know who Dr Zaretsky is. He is a Jewish doctor who worked at a facility my client worked at until about 10 years ago. This was an obvious anti-Semitic remark..but I wouldn't give him the pleasure of knowing that "I got it".

But I think you are missing the point.

The return was done properly for a non NYC resident. It doesn't matter where he lived. His W-2 is a non resident. His wife's W-2 has (as the past 3 years) NYC withholding.

Something in the system (either his wife's W-2 or his address with the NYS dept of Labor or something else) triggered the letter that he was a NYC resident. Instead of asking for help, he started yelling at me that I made a mistake and I had to fix it. And when I asked him for a letter from his wife's employer, he couldn't produce one.....but according to him, I still had to fix this. So I wrote a letter for him and e-mailed it for approval (which you can see on post #6). And all subsequent e-mails are posted.

BTW...NYC withholding for non-residents is common. Lots of NYC employers "just do it" and it gets added to NYS withholding on a tax return. It has no effect on the bottom line. His wife is not my only client that has this.

In addition...my job is not to visit people's homes to verify if they are or are not NYC residents. My job is to prepare a return based on the information I'm given.

I did offer to help him. I never said I was going to charge him either. I pointed out that follow up work was not included in my (big $85) fee unless it was my fault. His response was that it was my fault. Which it wasn't......!

I really don't need to defend my work to you. It was 100% perfect based on the information this year....and for the past 15 years.

Perhaps you accept being treated like an underling. I don't. I wouldn't do his return or help him in the future for $1,000.000...and that's the truth.

[MsTabbyKats]

To add...because people may not know:

NYC income is NOT taxed if you are not a NYC resident. Only NYC residents pay NYC tax. Any withholding for NYC is entered under NYS withholding on the tax form...and added to it. No one disputes where the wife worked...including the Dept of Taxation. She worked in NYC...as do thousands and thousands of other people. They work here. The don't pay income tax here. The husband also works in NYC. Again...where they work is not an issue.

Where they live is an issue (or purport to live)...which could have been easily resolved if the client hadn't acted like a jerk.

[Richcpaman]

MsTabby:

The "If I was Dr. Zatersky.." Line was enough.

I would have hung up right there.

Don't worry about him

Rich