Lee B Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Good morning, Here are some Q&A's on the Raven Database. What is the purpose of RavenDB in ATX2012? RavenDB is used to provide information to some of the data grids in the application, like the Return Manager and E-file Manager grids. RavenDB is not used in any way to compute the tax return. In what mode or manner is the RavenDB used? ATX is using RavenDB as an embedded database, in embedded mode. In order to use RavenDB in this manner in a way that is supported by RavenDB, there are a couple of implementation rules that must be true. 1) The database can only be opened and used by a single instance of ATX2012 at any given time. This requirement is adhered to by ATX2012. This limitation is one of several reasons that opening ATX2012 under multiple different Operating System Users at the same time is not supported. 2) The database that is opened by ATX2012 must be stored on a drive that is local to the computer that is running the application. This requirement is also adhered to by ATX2012. There are installation scenarios where a database created and used by an instance on one computer may also be seen to be available across the network. However, in this situation, when the application is being run across the network, ATX2012 creates a second database instance that is local to the computer where the software is executing. On a Win7 OS, this local database is found at %SystemDrive%ProgramDataCCH Small Firm ServicesATX2012Data” ATX2012 was never implemented to permit sharing of the database across multiple ATX2012 instances OR to make use of a database that was not found on drives local to the computer that the software is running on. In response to several statements on the community board about the vendor confirming that we are using RavenDB in an unsupported manner; We have been in contact with the RavenDB vendor and explained that ATX2012 opens the database local to the computer AND that we do not support the use of the software from multiple OS user accounts at the same time or in a Terminal Server/RDP or Remote Desktop scenario. After explaining the above unsupported environments, and detailing how ATX2012 makes use of RavenDB, the vendor confirmed that based on his understanding of how the application is making use of the software and of the lack of our support for the RDP/Remote Desktop scenarios, ATX is using RavenDB in a supported manner. Thank you, ATXMichelle I guess that anyone on a network now knows exactly what they are going to get for 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 cbslee, you seem to have a grip on this. Could you explain it so my feeble mind can understand it?. What I am reading seems to say that, even though ATX comes with a three user license, only one user can use the software at a time? And if I am running on a network, as I am, the data can (and should) reside on the server but the program will have to be installed and operated on the local workstation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Seriously! What was ATX thinking that only stand alone systems will be used this tax season? Instead of saying that they screwed up they are blaming the users! You should NOT be on a network! This is more proof that 2013 will most likely be the same if they will not fix the problem for network users. Time to jump ship while you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I am a one person operation running on a standalone, so some more knowledgeable people than me will have to interpret this jargon. While I had minimal problems, this is the final confirmation for me, that it's time to leave ATX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 ATX says, "We have been in contact with the RavenDB vendor and explained that ATX2012 opens the database local to the computer AND that we do not support the use of the software from multiple OS user accounts at the same time or in a Terminal Server/RDP or Remote Desktop scenario" Folks I believe that is contrary to your user license! I am not a lawyer but those of you who want to pursue a full refund may want to talk to a lawyer based on this statement. You may have a terms and conditions violation and the "intended use" of the software. As someone pointed out the basic license is a 3 user license! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Three user license means 3 different PTINs. Has nothing to do with network or multiple computers. This has been the rule since 2004. Nothing new here. What some of the jargon means "do not support the use of the software from multiple OS user accounts at the same time or in a Terminal Server/RDP or Remote Desktop scenario" is... I have a network with 10 workstations. 7 are WIN 7 PRO, 3 are XP. The database will NOT allow a user on one of the XP machines to use ATX if someone is already on a WIN 7 machine, and vice versa. This is new information to me and very clearly proves that the developers are loose in the noodle. We have experienced this bug and did not know the reason for it till now. Strike 17 ATX!!! This is "damage control propaganda" by CCH and only makes me loathe CCH even more, despite the sweet well intentioned pleas of our sales rep. Unless I see some radical change in their philosophy, they are going to be history at my company and my personal business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I am a one person operation running on a standalone, so some more knowledgeable people than me will have to interpret this jargon. While I had minimal problems, this is the final confirmation for me, that it's time to leave ATX. The program will work very well in 2013 on a standalone computer system. I recommend i5 processor, 16GB RAM, SSD if budgetable (at least 240GB) and multiple monitors. This is the kind of system I have at my home business and have had only minor issues all season, and even less after update 12.15. If you bring a second computer into your network, problems everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 The findings of my independent software developer that is checking out ATX for me support my following comments: This information just cements the fact that the people CCH picked as a development team, picked a cheap database and built ATX to fit its requirements. Any first year tech student knows that you choose the software (in this case the database) that has features that will meet the needs of the program you are developing. CCH had/has a bunch of dimwits at the controls, and will be just a blip in history in 2 more tax seasons. They will be losing 2 10 year loyal customers if they keep the RAVEN DB as the core of the program for 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Three user license means 3 different PTINs. Has nothing to do with network or multiple computers. This has been the rule since 2004. Nothing new here. What some of the jargon means "do not support the use of the software from multiple OS user accounts at the same time or in a Terminal Server/RDP or Remote Desktop scenario" is... I have a network with 10 workstations. 7 are WIN 7 PRO, 3 are XP. The database will NOT allow a user on one of the XP machines to use ATX if someone is already on a WIN 7 machine, and vice versa. This is new information to me and very clearly proves that the developers are loose in the noodle. We have experienced this bug and did not know the reason for it till now. Strike 17 ATX!!! This is "damage control propaganda" by CCH and only makes me loathe CCH even more, despite the sweet well intentioned pleas of our sales rep. Unless I see some radical change in their philosophy, they are going to be history at my company and my personal business. Jack, you clearly know more about this stuff than I do, but we have been usings 3 users without ptins without it being an issue. I have assigned non-preparers user names and passwords in the past and they could use the software for assigned purposes and all three at the same time. It had nothing to do, from a practical standpoint, of any ptins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 The findings of my independent software developer that is checking out ATX for me support my following comments: This information just cements the fact that the people CCH picked as a development team, picked a cheap database and built ATX to fit its requirements. Any first year tech student knows that you choose the software (in this case the database) that has features that will meet the needs of the program you are developing. CCH had/has a bunch of dimwits at the controls, and will be just a blip in history in 2 more tax seasons. They will be losing 2 10 year loyal customers if they keep the RAVEN DB as the core of the program for 2013. How do we know if they are going to keep using Raven? Should we just assume that? BTW, I have mounted my horse and I am very, very close to saying giddy up and riding into the sunset and all ATX will see is the horse's - well you get the picture. But without post haste resolution to that question, I will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Jack, you clearly know more about this stuff than I do, but we have been usings 3 users without ptins without it being an issue. I have assigned non-preparers user names and passwords in the past and they could use the software for assigned purposes and all three at the same time. It had nothing to do, from a practical standpoint, of any ptins. Agreed. I should have said preparers instead of PTINs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Agreed. I should have said preparers instead of PTINs. But to the same question, we have had ATX installed on the server and three different users could be using ATX on different workstations at the same time. This is not the case for 2012 and the future, you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 How do we know if they are going to keep using Raven? Should we just assume that? BTW, I have mounted my horse and I am very, very close to saying giddy up and riding into the sunset and all ATX will see is the horse's - well you get the picture. But without post haste resolution to that question, I will be gone. Look at the system requirement ATX listed for 2013. Also, all my conversations with tech people and sales people have indicated that they were "fixing what is wrong with the new program" and nothing was mentioned about reworking. To change the core DB would take much more than a year to accomplish. If you read the installation directions listed in the 2013 requirements, you will see a very major change in installation process. The process indicates that the program will use the same DB but each workstation will be made to imitate a standalone. Pretty shabby way to polish a turd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 But to the same question, we have had ATX installed on the server and three different users could be using ATX on different workstations at the same time. This is not the case for 2012 and the future, you think? At this point, the license allows 3 different users concurrently. If you need more, more license need to be purchased. We buy unlimited license for 50% of the initial program price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Whoa horse, hold on just a minute, let me get off here a second. OK Jack, so I guess in re-reading, as long as I have the same operating system on each and every one of the workstations, assuming recommended installation, I should be able to open the program on three different workstations and access the same data base on the server all at the same time. Is my understanding correct? As a follow up, would this preclude me from accessing the database remotely if my home computer is running a different os? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Whoa horse, hold on just a minute, let me get off here a second. OK Jack, so I guess in re-reading, as long as I have the same operating system on each and every one of the workstations, assuming recommended installation, I should be able to open the program on three different workstations and access the same data base on the server all at the same time. Is my understanding correct? As a follow up, would this preclude me from accessing the database remotely if my home computer is running a different os? Your assessment is correct. At my work area, I have two computers. One is XP the other WIN 7 PRO with SSD. If I open ATX on the XP machine, no one else can access the database from the workstations after they logon. At first, I thought it was ATX dislike for XP. Now I know it is the RAVEN DB inability to work simultaneously with different OS. Likewise, if a WIN 7 machine opens the program first, none of the XP machines can access ATX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Boys if you are on a network and intend to stay on a network for 2013 your decision is pretty much made for you by ATX! Time to saddle up rfassett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Dear ATXMichelle, Why would the developers create a program that distributes different versions of the same database on several different computers on the network. Why was a database not a database chose that would prevent users from accessing the same "user folder" but allow multiple users access to the database that is located in only ONE place? The actions of CCH by hiring and using less than adequate programmers and programmer supervisors has just cause 2 more long time (10 years) user to jump ship. By my having access to quality software programmers that help me regularly, I have discovered the truths about the "makeover" of ATX, and have decided that my/our businesses cannot take the risk for next tax season of the same "caused by lack of experience and knowledge of programmers) disaster we had in 2012. Were it not for my computer experience and the experience of several other very competent tech people I know, our firm would have crashed and burned for the 2012 season. As it turned out, we have been severely harmed and the damage is not over yet, but we did survive. It is our belief that YOUR company will experience the same kind of disaster in the coming 12 months. If you or anyone above you cares, this is our position, and we will not be coming back for 2013. I expect the usual "non-reply of any substance" as we have received about all our complaints this past season. However, you will not need to reply to us for the 2013 tax season, so this had become a non-issue from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Does anyone have ATXMichelle's e-mail address or any direct e-mail addresses to management at ATX/CCH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Boys if you are on a network and intend to stay on a network for 2013 your decision is pretty much made for you by ATX! Time to saddle up rfassett! Well, I was already on the horse ready to go but Jack calmed me down. It sounds like if I upgrade my equipment to ATX specs and do the recommended installation, we should be OK. I have my IT guy pricing me out the new equipment and software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Does anyone have ATXMichelle's e-mail address or any direct e-mail addresses to management at ATX/CCH? Jack, ATX Support Email: [email protected] Kim Manuel VP, Customer Relations Email: [email protected] CCH Faxes Fax: 1-888-815-7587 Fax: 1-800-834-4859 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanmcq Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I still have to look at a bunch of different software - from the description in the CPA Proadvisor article Ultra Tax seems like it would fit my needs except for the price - but ATX does seem like it would work if I go ahead and get the laptop I'm poised to buy for my assistant to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 If you are going to be 100% Win 7 network, using their recommended system specs. you still need iron clad assurance from ATX that it will not crash if 2 users are opening the database at the same time. Can you imagine the horror Feb 2014 when the system starts slowing down or crashes when multiple users are logging and they come up with a workaround that is cumbersome (Each user hollers to the other when they are in and out of the database)! It's like you got to take turns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 If you are going to be 100% Win 7 network, using their recommended system specs. you still need iron clad assurance from ATX that it will not crash if 2 users are opening the database at the same time. Can you imagine the horror Feb 2014 when the system starts slowing down or crashes when multiple users are logging and they come up with a workaround that is cumbersome (Each user hollers to the other when they are in and out of the database)! It's like you got to take turns! Using all WIN 7 machines, we had as many as 6 people using the program simultaneously with the only issue being speed. The program creates a "ghost" database on each workstation. Keeping these all talking correctly to the main database was the source of all the program crashes until 12.15. The problem still is not totally fixed. I want the ability to watch the program progress through the summer and see the 2013 program in a full working environment before I will even remotely consider staying with them. Transparency or I ride!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 For folks thinking about switching to Drake, they will have to forego the early discounts if they wait until a full working version of ATX 2013 is out around November this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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