Reasons I don't E-File my clients returns.

[Jack from Ohio]

Recent posts have piqued my interest. Save the cliche's.

I started e-filing (in my private practice) ALL returns that can be e-filed in 1998. I charge extra for paper filing, and suddenly the need to paper file vanished for those who were stanchly against it.

At the firm I work at full time, if you take out the CP2000 where clients did not provide documents, 90% of the other notices our clients get come from paper filed returns.

Especially State returns. The scanners like to move decimals.

So I don't fit this thread, but I started it, so I am taking editorial privilege to post in it!

[OldJack]

1. I don't like doing the IRS's work at zero hourly pay.

2. When I give the paper tax return to the client I am done. No checking to see if the IRS got it, etc.

3. Its the clients responsibility to file their tax return and I don't need that liability.

4. Paper is cheap and my time is not.

5. I can find the file copy when the electricity is off.

6. I don't like someone telling me what I have to do.

[mlinder42]

I feel just the opposite we do 2500 returns we e-file all returns we can both Federal and State.When I started here they did not e-file state returns if client owed.I wasted many hours trying to figure out why MD took Federal refunds that they had never received the return so they did not bill just made up a return and levied the Federal refund.It is much easier to do e-file it takes maybe 5 minutes a day to check acks.I feel you do a disservice to the client by no e-filing the same way if you did returns by hand.

[JohnH]

1. I don't like doing the IRS's work at zero hourly pay.

2. When I give the paper tax return to the client I am done. No checking to see if the IRS got it, etc.

3. Its the clients responsibility to file their tax return and I don't need that liability.

4. Paper is cheap and my time is not.

5. I can find the file copy when the electricity is off.

6. I don't like someone telling me what I have to do.

(Ditto on 1-6)

7. A scratch won't render the copy of the return irretrievable

8. When I finish the return and mail it to the client, I'm done

9. I don't need the government's permission or stamp of approval to earn my living (at least not until 2 years from now)

10. I don't care to be a data entry clerk for the government

[JohnH]

Only two of us all day?

OK Old Jack - should I turn out the lights or do you want to do it?

[Pacun]

JOHNH, whevener you decide to try efiling, please let me know and I will be glad to help you if you need assistance. I have been efiling as much as I can for the last 4 years.

Reasons why I efile.

1.- Peer and client presure.

2.- Makes you look more professional and CURRENT.

3.- It is the cool thing to do

4.- Faster refunds

5.- Less mistakes.

6.- No W-2s to attach (sometimes one is attached double and one is left out)

7.- Some of my clients don't know how to fill out the sender's portion of the envelop (I have to do it).

8.- It is more accurate

9.- Less calls from people asking "where is my refund"

10.- Less toner and printer maintenance costs. Not to mention the less paper jams and out of paper messages.

11.- You get a next day message (not a scary letter 2 months later) when your dependent's social security number was by mistake used by someone else.

12.- Next day notification that your client owes federal, state or child support.

13.- Sooner than later the government will require e-file and I will be force to learn it quickly

14.- Less trees to be cut.

Don't turn the lights off because I know my list will be extended by someone else.

[Pacun]

I think there are a lot of people who don't efile but don't want to be noticed. I do agree with them and I will say this:

With efile, the IRS will be able to know at anypoint what kind of mistakes were made, what kind of exams you have passed and IRS will be able to tell if the returns you are efiling go along with your qualifications. They will also know how many returns you prepared and the average price you are charging based on Sch A. AND MUCH MUCH MORE.

[mcb39]

If you ever have gone into ATX's database to check on the status of an efiled return, you will notice that the amout you charged is included in the efile. That makes no difference to me as I report all of my income. I also efile every return that I possibly can and would absolutely hate to have to go back to the old paper way. Remember when you assembled and the client took it home and just HAD to look through it and got all of the pages mixed up as well as the envelopes they went into. Calls were numerous. (time consuming). And, now you cannot even staple, but are supposed to paper clip attachments. Heaven help what happens on the other end.

I love efile. I don't care how much money it is saving the government, but I sure care about how much money it is saving me. I save a paper file of each return, which I can find with the power out. It also makes it much easier to reference for the next year's return. I also save two different disk backups.

As for someone telling me what I have to do; someone does that a multitude of times every day. It's called the law. In the Dental office where I work parttime, the Drs are licensed, the hygienists are licensed, the practice, which includes all of us are governed by strict OSHA and HIPPA laws. Privacy and Confidentiality are tantamount, just as they are in our business. Just check around, it is that way nearly everywhere. I don't see any point in argueing the pros and cons of efile. There are some who like it and some who don't; just as in every other phase of life.

[GeneInAlabama]

>>With efile, the IRS will be able to know at anypoint what kind of mistakes were made, what kind of exams you have passed and IRS will be able to tell if the returns you are efiling go along with your qualifications. They will also know how many returns you prepared and the average price you are charging based on Sch A. AND MUCH MUCH MORE.<<

Uh, I don't think the IRS will know any more about you one way or the other if you efile or paper file. I think the IRS has better things to do than spy on us. If AUDITS show negligence, incompetence or outright fraud; then we need to worry.

[JohnH]

Here's a prediction. Within a few years, an audit of a line item or two, or even single year, will be a rarity. Most audits will probably encompass all open years. And will look more like fishing expeditions than audits as we know them now. Why? Mainly because the info will be fairly easy to compile, especially since the preparer community has been so compliant in expediting the standardization process. Don't think only about the info in the IRS computers - expand your thinking to how preparers are being nudged to obtain and store supporting documentation to protect themselves against preparer penalties. Roll over for the government and I can guarantee the bureaucrats will scratch your tummy just long enough to get a noose around your neck.

This isn't a "black helicopter" type of post, although many tax preparers will dismiss it as such. Yet right now on another forum we've been discussing the fact that IRS auditors are now asking for the entire Quickbooks backup file when auditing a business. Anybody foolish enough to suggest that they only want this to verify opening balances?

[OldJack]

>>I think the IRS has better things to do than spy on us<<

You got to be kidding! I believe they collect every bit of information available on everything and have access from other sources for the rest. The problem with their information is that it is many times wrong. I currently have a CP2000 proposing additional tax for an amount of income that was clearly reported on a separate line on Sch-F (correctly on line 8b), but the IRS computer still thinks it was not reported. I called the IRS and since they do not have the Sch-F form to look at, with their computer system, they can't see the amount on the tax return as filed.

Sooner or later the individual income tax law will be repealed and we will not have to worry about efile or at least it will not be as we now know it.

[GeneInAlabama]

>>I currently have a CP2000 proposing additional tax for an amount of income that was clearly reported on a separate line on Sch-F (correctly on line 8b), but the IRS computer still thinks it was not reported. I called the IRS and since they do not have the Sch-F form to look at, with their computer system, they can't see the amount on the tax return as filed.<<

That sounds like a reason to NOT efile. I do efile all my 1040s that can be efiled but not business retuns because I do very few of those and in recent years it seems that there were more problems with efiling business returns. I suppose those problems have been worked out, but I just haven't made the change yet. At age 74, I am beginning to feel that maybe I am technologically challanged. I can't even seem to use my cell phone for anything but talking.

[jainen]

>>I can't even seem to use my cell phone for anything but talking<<

I use mine to tell time as well for talking!

[GeneInAlabama]

>>I use mine to tell time as well for talking!<<

That sounds like a great idea. I'll get one of my grandkids show me how to do that.

[joanmcq]

Gene, the CP2000 notice is easy to respond to then. All returns, electronically filed or paper filed, show up the same on the IRS transcripts that the agents and eservices for that matter, can see, as well as the computers that generate the notices. This is one reason most full audits (not CP notices) ask for paper copies of the returns. they're easier to read than a transcript and contain more info. However, paper filed returns can be pulled up from the archives if necessary. and there is all that info that is not on the efile.

Whether audits go to multiple years or focus only on one depends

a. on the level of the audit. Is it a 'check-a-box' done by a low level examiner (very low chance of multiple years), or an R.A. (multiple years a given if

b. the initial return is flawed. how crappy is the initial return being audited? Big changes or a no-change?

R.A.s will usually look at all open years, especially if the returns look bad. TCOs will open additional years if the returns look bad.

[Eagles Ridge]

One more advantage of e-filing. If a client owes, I insist that they e-file. It almost guarantees that they will NOT get a late filing penalty.