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I can't tell you how best to actually pay the employees since the company can't open a bank account, but I think the fact that you are unable to obtain the EIN would fall under a reasonable cause for not being able to pay the tax liabilities. From circular E (bold is mine): Penalties may apply if you do not make required deposits on time or if you make deposits for less than the required amount. The penalties do not apply if any failure to make a proper and timely deposit was due to reasonable cause and not to willful neglect. The IRS may also waive penalties if you inadvertently fail to deposit in the first quarter you were required to deposit any employment tax, or in the first quarter during which your frequency of deposits changed, if you timely filed your employment tax return.

I've never given anyone a return with P&I calculated (other than Estimated Tax Penalty). I mentally run a rough estimate, keeping it slightly on the high side. I tell them to expect a bill for about $ xxx within 4-6 weeks and to send me a copy when it arrives if they want me to verify it for them. I've never had a client complain about that, and I've never had to explain any differences between my rough estimate and the final bill. To some extent, this issue is about setting expectations. If we condition the client to expect IRS to get it right and then we will check their work, that is a good thing. If we condition the client to think we beleive we are getting it right and IRS will correct our work, then we are setting ourselves up for having to explain why we got it wrong if that happens to occur. Most of the time, when you are explaining your own actions you are backing up.

Judy said it very well. I'll just add that you should use it when you feel it needed, no one but Eric and mods see it, and whether we agree with you or not, we don't mind looking. We want this group to continue to be a useful tool for our members, and a friendly place for them as well. You help us keep it that way, if you spot a scammer or other problem.

For this last return I'm working on, I think I'm going to print out the interest and late payment penalty that is calc'd through 10/15 but then delete the calcs and go with the return and instruction letters showing only the tax and 2210 penalty. This client is smart and will understand it, and since he is still only able to make a partial payment of about 35% of the balance due and will be requesting an installment agreement, more interest and penalties will be added anyway. Most of the time I include the penalties and interest even though I know that the client may get a notice adjusting it by a small amount for the difference in the # of days since I don't always use the exact day that the payment is posted to the government's system, but it's better than them getting a bigger notice if I don't include it at all.

I sort of agree, is there was a 1099 last year, not given to me this year, then its my duty to question it. That's the point of continuity with a client and your advantage then them going to turbo.

Are you counting the time involved explaining the differences to the client when they get a notice adjusting the figures your software provided?

I just saw one of my clients that dropped off the rest of her receipts for her Sch c. She was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer in early September, and the person she hired to compile the stuff didn't do a good job, then stopped showing up. I've been suggesting she just have my assistant do it and finally (her chemo brain is kicking in) agreed last night. So next year she'll be in good shape records wise since we'll be doing her books all along. This is (except for the procrastination) the perfect client. The one that when you say she has to make a $5k extension payment says 'wow, I made a lot more money this year. Yay!' and writes the check. The one that says 'how much more can I put into my SEP? I've already put in $12k this year'. She asks about tax consequences before she makes financial decisions. And she's not wealthy, just a nice middle class type earnings, but is one hell of a saver. Tough when after admiring her new short haircut, she handed me a chunk that fell out as she touched it.

The report function works by alerting Eric and the moderators of problem postings, and it gives us a visual indicator on our main page when new reports have come in without us having to read every topic or postings within them. The report is specific to the post , the system references it automatically for us, and gives a link for us directly back to the post so we don't have to search for it in order to see it. If multiple members are each sending reports on the same post, the system groups all of the reports for any one thread into one line item and gives a tally. From there, we can look at any comments that may have been sent, and gives us the chance to decide if a warning is warranted. Using the report function doesn't hurt the member whose post it is, and it doesn't cause the system to automatically generate the warning point. When "report" is clicked on, it opens a box to enter a comment about why you are reporting that post. Comments may be helpful for us to know your feelings but aren't necessary. It could be some short phrase, for example:, advert by spammer, attacking another, vulgarity. It doesn't have to be short, but it could be that easy, and it's easier for us to all see what the group thinks are problem posts. Remember that Eric may not spend much time on here and he certainly skips many of the tax topics because taxes aren't his thing. I might not read some of the topics in the alternate vendor subforums, but some spam was occurring there that could easily have been brought to our attention. People have been using it, and it is a lot easier than each of us getting separate PMs, having to search for the post in question, and then for us having PMs back and forth. Also, no one should feel like they are being a tattler or whiner if they report a post. If anyone here thinks he or she is being attacked, that person shouldn't feel like they are being a whiner or being too sensitive by reporting a post they feel is an attack. That is what the report function is there for.

Like Michael, I base that decision partly on how long it takes. For any error I may have made, there's no charge regardless of how long it may take. For something not of my doing but which takes very little time (maybe a letter or phone call), usually no charge because it's a part of good client service. I don't nickel and dime my clients. But for something involved and which I should have been told about (1099-B, etc), I charge for the time spent getting it sorted out. For non-clients who need help with something like this, it's full charge for every minute spent (unless there's an extenuating circumstance).

Ok, here's one from yesterday. Client and I went over every single piece of paper in his folder (and there were a lot). I entered and reviewed every line item with him as we went along. He had a 1099-R code 3 distribution from Fidelity that he cannot remember receiving the money. He grumbled about it, went home, I finished his return for him to pickup the next day. Meanwhile he calls Fidelity and is not getting a satisfactory explanation from them. So he calls me and wants me to exclude it from his return. I said no, we can amend if it is wrong. He then starts to get edgy with me because I won't budge. Once I know about something, I can't unring the bell. It stays on the return. Period. Sometimes we get these obsessive personalities. I am good with them. It's OK. They either end up extremely loyal or continue to bop along from preparer to preparer. In any case, I don't care. I chalk it up to them and like teflon, it bounces off me. On with the show!