JohnH

I think it's worth noting that the heading for this part of the Forum is "General Chit Chat", not "General Chit Chat Except Politics, Religion, or Something Else That Might Offend Someone "

KC: The process is a little tricky, but he could still make money on it by holding a "Calf Lottery". If he sells 50 tickets at $10 each, he will clear $490 after expenses.

Funny how our perspective changes based on whose ox is being gored. I'm not criticizing your attitude - we all have those reactions from time-to-time. I remember serving on a church board many years ago and explaining how the minister's parsonage allowance works. The wealthiest and most vocal member of the board spoke up with a negative comment about how he wished he could deduct his utilites and insinuating that it was "unfair". He was not a client, so I pointed out that he got extra exemptions for him and his wife being over 65 (this tells you how many years ago this happened), and that the "fair" thing for him to do would be to forego that benefit since all us younger people (including the pastor) were not entitled to it. That discussion didn't go any further, although I assumed that if he ever needed to change accountants I would probably not be in the running.

You might also want to think of this in the sense that you have ALREADY taken a tax deduction by not billing them. If you billed them $2,000 and then donated the money back to them after the bill was paid, you'd be in exactly the same position as you are by not billing them. (Except for the fact that you would have paid Self-Employment tax on the $2,000 of income as it passed through your hands). BTW, thanks very much for all the time you've donated to create this forum in the same spirit that you have been helping the hospital.

I still don't see anything improper (including the back seat of the Oldsmobile thing).

Bob: I'm thinking about your commission - I want to do what's fair. Given the mindset inherited from ATX, I'm thinking I will eventually decide that only whatever is in my best interests will constitute what is fair.

Bob: I'm glad you posted that. I think I'll enter with the postcard. If I win, then that MIGHT help me make my software decision.

In a slight departure from the main topic of this thread and its permutations, but still following the political theme, I'd like to recommend the latest Charles Krauthamer article concerning the phenomenon of the 2-year political campaigns for president. The main focus & title of the article is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but a secondary point is quite good - he insists that the ordeal of the long political campaign actually does give us some insight in the managerial abilities & skills of the candidates. Political differences aside, if the candidate can't effectively manage his/her campaign how in the world will that person be able to manage the actual job of president? Much of what he says is self-evident, but in his usual style he offers a slightly different twist to the issues. Well worth reading.

Given his situation, he might want to re-think the idea of getting a mortgage so he can invest the difference. Depending upon his tax situation, the value of the tax deduction may be less than it appears since its real value is only the tax savings on the difference between his standard deduction and his itemized deductions. Plus, he will need to be pretty sure the money he invests will earn significantly more than the rate (6-7% ?) he will pay on the mortgage. The foregone interest expense is a guaranteed return, and he may learn the unpleasant truth that the risk he assumed in hopes of higher returns is way out of proportion to the potential return. And at his age & fiancial circumstances, that may be the last meaningful investment lesson he ever has the opportunity to learn. These are just a few random thoughts and may be totally irrelevant to his situation. I don't have anything to offer concerning your main questions.

As stated before, I can't bring myself to renew early this year. It isn't that I have a cavalier attitude about the decision to spend more money. I'm thinking in terms of time invested. I know that the hourly rate any of us bill can range from $80 to $200/hr or more, but assuming a low-side average of $100, the decision becomes whether to make a premature commitment of the value of one hour of time at the risk of making a mistake that will cost many, many hours to correct. Or in dollar terms, I'm deciding to invest an extra $100 in my tax software decision this year by waiting until the last possible minute in hopes that I'll forestall making a $1,000 mistake. To me, it's an insurance cost rather than a missed discount. (I may change my mind if they up the ante with the coffee pot, toaster oven, or microwave)

Either of the above works. If you're in the Return Manager, you can highlight the name & change it, or just plant your cursor & backspace. This allows you to change the name without opening the return itself, but if you press the "Enter" key after changing the name it will open the return anyhow.

I'm guessing that your client will owe tax on the net winnings (if any) in the client's state of residence only, with no offsetting credit for tax paid to LA (as would be the case for winnings which are taxed in LA).

Interesting question about the odds changing. It's true that extending the eligibility date would change your ACTUAL odds since more people would be brought into the lottery by extending the eligbility date. But if they didn't have as many sign-ups as they expected initially, then the extension might not change the STATED odds. Of course, none of this addresses the other issue that OldJack just pointed out, which is the bingo-parlor mentality that their marketing dept brings to the table. I think it's another indication of a particular mind-set under the new management. Maybe this type of stuff works well in Europe. (?) PS: I hope some of you on this forum who elected to renew early win the prizes, but I'm still holding out for a coffee pot or toaster oven.

We will all be interested in hearing what you find out from this client. Could be a legitimate reason for his wanting to switch the income to his personal return, but there could also be a host of nonlegitimate reaons involving everything from simple misunderstandings all the way up to blatantly illegal business practices. BTW, my practice has always been to feely give advice at parties, church, on the phone, etc. It has resulted in plenty of new business and enhanced friendships along the way. I find people to be genuinely appreciative and I think it pays off tremendously. The key is to know when to say "we're getting into territory that's too complicated for an off the cuff discussion and we need to meet at my office". I'll tolerate the few freeloaders I encounter because they are irrelevant when compared to the many benefits derived from sharing information when it's appropriate.

Pacun: That's an interesting question, but I can only answer for myself. I'm only responsible for my bottom line, not ATX's. As long as they have competitors, it's their responsibility to invest the necessary resources to insure that their product is as good as or better than their competitors' offerings in all areas of service, performance, price, reliability, customer satisfaction, etc. If they became a monopoly my answer might be different, but in that case we wouldn't even need to have this discussion.

Marilyn: Same here - still thinking it over. However, I made the decision weeks ago that I won't be taking any "Early Renewal" offers from ATX or anyone else - don't plan to make the final decision until 4th quarter. I don't think the $100 or so of savings is worth the risk of making a mistake. In the meantime I'm evaluating other software as a precaution and have already arranged a conversion if I decide to switch to one of the competitors. BTW, as I recall the airline ticket class action was actually a clever marketing scheme coupled with a unique way to solve a potential legal problem gthe airlines had at the time.

This is all well & good, but I want to know when they are going to throw in a coffee pot or toaster with every renewal?

Pacun: This was posted over on the TMI board and might be helpful to you. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/fi...005-16770-1.pdf

"... the whole point of political rhetoric is to make it unnecessary for you to have to go into the specifics before taking sides. You don't need to know any economics to be in favor of 'a living wage' or 'affordable housing.' In fact, the less economics you know, the more you can believe in such things." excerpt from a recent article by Thomas Sowell entitled "A War of Words". There are numerous other gems of Sowell's usual wisdom & wit in the same article.

I think Karl Marx, Chairman Mao, Lenin, Joe Stalin, and others of their ilk did a pretty good job of showing us what "fairness" looks like when government is expected/allowed to define it. After all, enforced egalitarianism seems so logical to the simple-minded. Hillary has certainly borrowed heavily from their ideas, and it appears she just can't wait to get it right where they failed. The people who are sucked in by her simplistic pronouncements just have no sense of history, not to mention a deficit of basic character judgement.

It's neither diplomacy or extortion - it's capitulation. It may even yield some seeming results for the short-sighted, but in the long run we will pay dearly for this appeasement which is being forced by people willing to sacrifice long-term security for short-term political advantage. Our children & grandchildren may curse this generation for having sold them out if things continue on the path we appear to be taking at the present time.

News of a recent bear attack in Yellowstone Park makes this a prudent time to issue a reminder for anyone hiking in the woods, as this is the prime season for bear encounters. Hikers should be sure to sing, talk, and make lots of noise to scare away bears & avoid accidental confrontations. Many hikers wear tiny bells on their clothing & shoes to make additional noise and they carry pepper spray to deter attacks. It is also helpful to look for signs of bear activity and to be aware of the types of bears are active in the area. One reliable means is to examine bear droppings. Brown bear droppings are generally filled with pieces of twigs, berries, and insects. Grizzly bear droppings have a distinctive pepper smell and are filled with ground up pieces of tiny bells.

Looks like the pressure is intensifying. I received both a voice mail and a fax this week from ATX/Kleinrock concerning renewals, in addition to the emails & mailings already sent in the past couple of weeks. It would have been nice if they had been as diligent back in April about keeping the lines of communication open with existing customers whose money they had already collected.

Yes, and in hindsight that's my only defense for voting for him. All the signs of incompetence were there at the time I cast my ballots. I also like the quote that "a liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet".

Thanks Bob. We were just pokin' a little good-natured fun back & forth. Neither post was intended to be serious.