JohnH

They were getting an overabundance of spam, but I'm sure their motivation had more to do with what was in the company's best interests than any concern for their users. After all there is a history here...

This was probably discussed on the old Community , but since there are no archives to search... When setting up depreciation on a residential rental condominium, does anyone make an adjustment for land value? I just always use acquisition cost for the basis, because the condo owner has an "undivided interest in the common elements", which means there is no way to value the land separately from the structure. I'd be interested if there is a difference of opinion on this question.

You're right - I'm a paper filer, so the efile limits aren't a big issue for me, at least until I'm forced by the govenment into becoming an eflinger. I do have the complete Zillion forms as a part of the TKO package, all states, all forms (including W2, 1099, 941, etc.) , and all interactive. I also have access to all the research on the ATX site. I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but can't figure out if it's important or even worth the difference. Before I switched everything to ATX a couple of years ago, I was using Creative Solutions for 1040 work and ATX for business returns. Saved quite a chunk by migrating over to ATX for the 1040 work without giving up much. I'm not even sure how I would up with this combination rather than TTO, but it worked for me and it was well worth the cost. Like the rest of you, I'm getting their renewal offers. I don't intend to jump at any of the early renewals, but am trying to figure out what I'd likely need from ATX (if anything) if I switched to someone else. This is the year I think it will be worth foregoing the early discount to avoid making a wrong decision. At the least, I plan to get an extended time to cancel without penalty. If their sales dept can't offer that concession, I'll probably bail out on them anyhow. Come February 1, everything has to be right or else a mistake can turn into a huge headache.

I've remained in a state of confusion about the exact combination of products I use from ATX. I have been buying the ATX1040 Office package plus the Total Kleinrock Office. The price for 2007 before discounts & freight is $595 for ATX1040 plus $699 for TKO, for a total price of $1,363. This combination appears to give me the same features as the Total Tax Office package, which costs $1,595 before discounts & freight. I tried on a couple of occasions to get the ATX sales dept to explain the difference to me, but nobody was able to do so. Since the package met my needs & I got busy, I quit asking. Does anyone on this forum know what I may be giving up for the $232 savings?

I'm looking for them to develop a pair of glasses I can wear that will automatically cause the data to jump into the computer when I stare at the document & click my heels 3 times. For that, I'll pay an extra $1,000.

Bob: You may have identified a unique marketing opportunity for savy software vendors. They offer free conversion prior to purchase, then the customer is poised to jump ship to them at any point without giving it a second thought if they are provoked. As a matter of fact, given the right circumstances I might even be willing to pay a reasonable fee to convert with the understanding that the fee would be deducted from the software purchase if I decided to follow through. That would be a great back-up plan.

That's an interesting comment by the tax advocate. I wonder if access to a lot of info in IRS computers was somehow trashed or rendered unreliable in the preparation & run-up to Y2K. ???

Understood, but my sales rep alter ego sometimes pops out at the most inopportune times...

KC: Another side of the coin - the calls & emails may be a nuisance, but how else will you know about their "specials, deals, & promotions." ?

Funny you should bring up extensions. I reminded a client at church this AM that I was still waiting for his refi points from his 2003 return so I could set up the amortization on Sched A (about $100/yr). He's a new client who had been self-preparing and didn't know about how to handle points, so he just ignored them. He said he'd been trying to get out the Settlement Statement but was busy and hadn't been able to get around to it. So I told him there's no hurry on my end - we have until Oct 15 to file the return. It's just a manner of when he wants his $6K refund. That seemed to get his attention - maybe he's looking for the info as I write this.

For what it's worth, I did find a couple of ways to look at the form while working in an input screen. The shortest routes I've been able to find so far are these: 1) When you are in the screen they call the "Hub", you will see choices in the upper-left corner numbered 1-13. Clicking on #11 (View Results) takes you to a "Select Form/Schedule to View". Selecting the form you are interested in will then display the form. Getting out of the form screen involves either clicking "File" + "Exit" or else presing "esc". This operation only takes you back to the "Select Forms" screen, which must then be exited. if you want to end up back at the "Hub". Since the "Hub" is essentially the 1040 summary, I don't know why they don't provide an icon to enable you to jump directly to the 1040 and back to the "Hub" with a single mouse click each direction. 2) If you are working on the input screen for a PARTICULAR FORM, there is an icon for "View Form" which you can click. This takes you directly to the form associated with that screen. Again, exiting requires the same multiple steps as above. When viewing the form, I did find it a little cumbersome that a multi-page form cannot be navigated by scrolling. You have to use "Page Up" & "Page Down" to move from page-to-page. None of these is a big deal in and of itself, but it definitely affects how you move around within the return, especially for someone like me who uses the wheel mouse for much of my navigating. Anynow, I can't find any method enabling a simple toggle back & forth which works with forms.

I see that Tax Almanac is sponsored by Intuit. It has a nice slick look and appears to have good content. I'll probably sign up & use it from time-to-time. But having already been burned once by a big software company's heavy-handed antics, I think I'll spend most of my quality on-line time here first and on the Yahoo Group second, with TaxTalk being third (assuming it survives).

Bob: I totally agree on the idea of keeping the tone of this Community positiive. Seems to me that anyone who bought their ATX software had a right to post on that forum, and the company pretty much allowed anything to be said which wasn't an egregious violation of their rules. But that doesn't need to be the case here - the bullies can be dealt with. This is an independent community, supported by voluntary payments, and it seems reasonable that anything the moderators find objectionable should be subject to being deleted, without question or recourse by the poster. I trust KC and erc's judgement on those matters.

I spoke with them this AM & got the username & password problem straigtened out in about a minute. Download took 30 minutes with DSL, and the install was about 8 minutes. After a reboot, it was ready to run - fully funcional 2006 program. Will be out of the office the rest of today, but I plan to run a couple of test returns this PM or tomorrow. I did enter a simple return just to get a feel for it how it functions. At first blush it looks OK. Can anyone tell me if there is a simple way to toggle between the form and the input screen while entering data, or is it always necessary to exit the input screen and then go through the intermediate steps to display the form? The form looks a little cheesy on the screen, but as long as it prints OK (which it does) that's not a big deal for me.

Marilyn: In years past I would occasionally accept a demo offer, load it, and maybe do a parallel run with one or two returns if I got around to it. This year things will be a little different for me. I expect to parallel a dozen or more business & personal returns with at least TaxSlayer and Drake between now and Oct 15. I came over from Ultra Tax 2 years ago and could jump back to them with a minimum of effort and essentially no conversion problems, but the price tag is a little steep for me, so it will stay on the back burner for now. I won't be jumping at anybody's early discount - the $100 or so of savings isn't worth making a critical mistake this year. You are right about the cloud. My attitude could change in the coming months, but right now I believe ATX would have to give me a "no questions asked" right to a full refund up until late February 2008 before I'd take a chance on them. I want to see the program running with all states and reliable tech support, with no more surprises such as features offered and then withdrawn, before I'm willing to commit. I doubt their sales dept will be willing or permitted to concede that much, so ATX is looking less and less attractive to me as a vendor, even though I like the program itself. The decision will be driven by matters of confidence & trust, as well as features & benefits.

I didn't start a new topic for this post - it's just a comment and seems to fit generally into the original title, although it doesn't follow the subject of the last few posts. Nevertheless... Maybe I'm not doing the math right, but I seem to remember that it was suggested that there were only about 100 or so uses of the original ATX Community. I can't remember where this number came from - maybe it was an esitmate of only the number of posters. Anyhow, I notice that the number of users of this Community is now approcahing 180. I'd say that's a positive growth curve, especially considering that this Community is growing entirely by word of mouth.

Bob: Thanks for the info. In registering to download the demo, I somehow goofed and I'm getting a message that I'm registered twice, but it won't let me proceed. So I'm going to call them tomorrow, get the problem straightened out, and do the download - hopefully will run a few returns within the next couple of days.

Your comments have increased my interest in TaxSlayer Pro. It has also received some very favorable commens over on the TaxBook board. The price seems reasonable, and you make a strong case for the company - especially the fact that it is run by tax pros. I'm going to request their demo and try it out on a few extension returns. Any suggestions or shortcuts on how to get up & running in the minimum of time?

You are correct. He can only deduct his out-of-pocket costs, and that's assuming he hasn't already deducted them as a business expense. It's hard to explain to some clients the problems with double counting & circular reasoning.

I like the idea, and your sugested categories are a very good start.

Don: You are right, of course, with respect to the raw numbers. 100 or so out of that large number isn't a terrible loss. But I'm also evaluating the action from my perspective as a sales rep (the other hat I wear). In the sales business, that group would for the most part be considered "product champions" - people who actively promote the product among their peers without compensation or incentives to influence their support. However, even conceding that the size the "product champion" group is still a small part of the whole, the perceived damage to the company's reputation is "big time" as far as I'm concerned. With a flick of the switch, they threw most of their product champions overboard. IMO, hubris is a greater challange to the long-term success of any enterprise than the temporary effects of a few bad decisions. And it's often the least-recognized fault of many management teams, because by the time the damage is done they've usually moved on, often leaving a disaster in their wake..

After reading Ken's post I wavered on whether to send a message to ATX, because I doubt I would use their in-house community if revived, even if I decide to use their software next year. However, I did want to express my opinion to ATX, so I did finally send them the following Suggestion: "Regarding the unprofessional, unannounced, and unexplained termination of the Community, I have 6 words. You People Blew It - Big Time."

Maybe the 2nd shot across the bow?

Like many of you, I'm still weighing my options for next year. Up until the week before last, I was planning on renewing TTO with ATX soon after Apr 17. But the way in which the new management pulled the plug on the Community made me pull back & re-think things. If the software & associated services equals this year and price is within reason, I can live without the Community, especially since we have essentially duplicated it here (one again, my thanks to erc for taking on this task). But I remain concerned that the heavy-handed manner employed could be only a first shot across the bow. Are they setting the stage for more unilateral action of some sort? Are they intentionally conditioning their customers for other shocks? What other promises are they likely to make in getting the order, then cancel or fail to deliver when they decide it doesn't fit their objectives? One thing I've learned in business & life is that when someone unexpectedly takes advantage of you, without even the courtesy of a warning or explanation, they are sending a signal that they don't respect you and you should not be surprised if they do it again in the future. I'm not making an accusation against the company or disparaging their business practices - anyone can make an error in judgement. I am saying that they caused my antenna to go up and their long-term intentions remain to be seen. Transitioning to another program is problematic, but not a huge deal. I transitioned to Microvision several years back (from TurboTax, I think), and then was absorbed into Creative Solutions/Ultra Tax with special price protection, so that was another transition. After a couple of years with them I decided to try ATX for the 2005 filing season. I believe I saved about $1,800 or more each year, so it's been a worthwhile change for me. (I was already familiar with ATX because I was doing some Corp & W-2 work with Zillion Forms & its predecessors, so the transition was pretty easy). But while transitioning can be a headache for 20% or so of your clients due to carryovers or dropped data, it's really no big deal for the other 80%. The initial year is most difficult since you do a lot of double-checking as the returns are being prepared. Anyhow, my plan right now is to get very familiar with the competition, delay my decision until the last minute, and be prepared to change if I don't like the way I see the wind blowing with ATX. I also plan to use the abrupt termination of the Communitites as a bargaining chip if I do renew with ATX - I don't intend to let that business faux pas go by unnoticed. They will need to compensate me in some manner for the inconvenience they created if they want to retain my business. I like the ATX product and will be content to stay with it provided it continues to meet my business needs as I have defined them, but I won't let the software vendor define or dictate my business needs. So like others on this forum, I'm keenly interested in staying informed on what's out there as an alternative. For me, it's too early to make any decision for next year but it will be a priority to have a back-up plan if I decide that ATX no longer meets my overall requirements I'll be back here periodically to provide any info I develop on any software vendor, and I hope others will continue to do the same.

Glad to know that. Can't tell you how much I appreciate the effort & time you put in to get this Forum up & going. If anything happens to change the math financially and we need to chip in some more, please don't be bashful. Let us know what we need to do.