JohnH

Your comments have increased my interest in TaxSlayer Pro. It has also received some very favorable commens over on the TaxBook board. The price seems reasonable, and you make a strong case for the company - especially the fact that it is run by tax pros. I'm going to request their demo and try it out on a few extension returns. Any suggestions or shortcuts on how to get up & running in the minimum of time?

You are correct. He can only deduct his out-of-pocket costs, and that's assuming he hasn't already deducted them as a business expense. It's hard to explain to some clients the problems with double counting & circular reasoning.

I like the idea, and your sugested categories are a very good start.

Don: You are right, of course, with respect to the raw numbers. 100 or so out of that large number isn't a terrible loss. But I'm also evaluating the action from my perspective as a sales rep (the other hat I wear). In the sales business, that group would for the most part be considered "product champions" - people who actively promote the product among their peers without compensation or incentives to influence their support. However, even conceding that the size the "product champion" group is still a small part of the whole, the perceived damage to the company's reputation is "big time" as far as I'm concerned. With a flick of the switch, they threw most of their product champions overboard. IMO, hubris is a greater challange to the long-term success of any enterprise than the temporary effects of a few bad decisions. And it's often the least-recognized fault of many management teams, because by the time the damage is done they've usually moved on, often leaving a disaster in their wake..

After reading Ken's post I wavered on whether to send a message to ATX, because I doubt I would use their in-house community if revived, even if I decide to use their software next year. However, I did want to express my opinion to ATX, so I did finally send them the following Suggestion: "Regarding the unprofessional, unannounced, and unexplained termination of the Community, I have 6 words. You People Blew It - Big Time."

Maybe the 2nd shot across the bow?

Like many of you, I'm still weighing my options for next year. Up until the week before last, I was planning on renewing TTO with ATX soon after Apr 17. But the way in which the new management pulled the plug on the Community made me pull back & re-think things. If the software & associated services equals this year and price is within reason, I can live without the Community, especially since we have essentially duplicated it here (one again, my thanks to erc for taking on this task). But I remain concerned that the heavy-handed manner employed could be only a first shot across the bow. Are they setting the stage for more unilateral action of some sort? Are they intentionally conditioning their customers for other shocks? What other promises are they likely to make in getting the order, then cancel or fail to deliver when they decide it doesn't fit their objectives? One thing I've learned in business & life is that when someone unexpectedly takes advantage of you, without even the courtesy of a warning or explanation, they are sending a signal that they don't respect you and you should not be surprised if they do it again in the future. I'm not making an accusation against the company or disparaging their business practices - anyone can make an error in judgement. I am saying that they caused my antenna to go up and their long-term intentions remain to be seen. Transitioning to another program is problematic, but not a huge deal. I transitioned to Microvision several years back (from TurboTax, I think), and then was absorbed into Creative Solutions/Ultra Tax with special price protection, so that was another transition. After a couple of years with them I decided to try ATX for the 2005 filing season. I believe I saved about $1,800 or more each year, so it's been a worthwhile change for me. (I was already familiar with ATX because I was doing some Corp & W-2 work with Zillion Forms & its predecessors, so the transition was pretty easy). But while transitioning can be a headache for 20% or so of your clients due to carryovers or dropped data, it's really no big deal for the other 80%. The initial year is most difficult since you do a lot of double-checking as the returns are being prepared. Anyhow, my plan right now is to get very familiar with the competition, delay my decision until the last minute, and be prepared to change if I don't like the way I see the wind blowing with ATX. I also plan to use the abrupt termination of the Communitites as a bargaining chip if I do renew with ATX - I don't intend to let that business faux pas go by unnoticed. They will need to compensate me in some manner for the inconvenience they created if they want to retain my business. I like the ATX product and will be content to stay with it provided it continues to meet my business needs as I have defined them, but I won't let the software vendor define or dictate my business needs. So like others on this forum, I'm keenly interested in staying informed on what's out there as an alternative. For me, it's too early to make any decision for next year but it will be a priority to have a back-up plan if I decide that ATX no longer meets my overall requirements I'll be back here periodically to provide any info I develop on any software vendor, and I hope others will continue to do the same.

Glad to know that. Can't tell you how much I appreciate the effort & time you put in to get this Forum up & going. If anything happens to change the math financially and we need to chip in some more, please don't be bashful. Let us know what we need to do.

Couldn't say this when I started the topic, but now I can. I just returned from the Post Office - mailed my last few extensions (including my own). Nothing waiting to be picked up by clients. And I just burned a backup CD and placed it in my car, plus duplicates on 2 flash drives. I'm officially done.

I was wondering what happened to that client...

How about an "I'm Done" topic? No cheating - you can only check in if all returns are finished & picked up, all extensions filed, and all e-files completed, transmitted, & acknowledged (or however that e-file stuff works).

Pacun: I haven't seen anything specific on the counties or states. Usually when this type of thing happens they make an initial announcement and then follow up with specifics. There aren't any specifics on the web site this morning.

I never include the 1040-V and have never heard a word back about it.

Assuming your client: 1)does not work there any longer & doesn't intend to ever work there again, or 2) if he still works there is prepared to get fired, here's what I believe you should do: 1) Forget the 4852 - it isn't relevant 2) Prepare the 4137 & strike through the wording on line 1 - enter "Wages" on the dotted lines. The 4137 will calculate the employee portion of the SocSec/FICA tax and add it to his liability, but will omit the employer portion. 3) Prepare an SS-8 with employee name & SS# and all employer info. I prefer to have the client fill in the actual answers to the questions in his own words, but that's just me. (The main determinant is what the employee understood his employment situation to be, so I think it's important that he be able to explain it in his own words. I don't want to be accused of misrepresenting the situation if it's questioned). 4) Mark one copy of the SS-8 as "For Information Purposes Only" and attach to the return. 5) Mail the original of the SS-8 to the IRS office where it is required to be filed. The above will save your client about $800 (the employer's portion of the SocSec/FICA tax) minus whatever you charge him for doing the extra paperwork. The IRS will probably not pursue it, but if they do the employer may get very upset with your client. (That's the reason for my opening comments). The other possibility is that the IRS will pursue it and disagree with your client, billing him the $800 plus interest a year or two down the road. I think this is the least likely outcome, but you should warn the client that it could happen and that you won't be responsible for the P&I if that should come to pass. I've done a few of these and never heard another word about them, but one never knows what the future holds.

I've never had much success with French Fried tadpoles: 1) They wiggle around in the batter so much that it all falls off before I can drop them in the hot oil; 2) I can never figure out what wine goes best with them. I agree about not bathing in the water - have you heard what those tadpoles DO in that water?

You can leave the tadpoles in the hot tub for now. Feed them regularly to fatten them up, then scoop them out with a fish net & make a nice tadpole stew. Enjoy it while you are relaxing in the hot tub.

What's all this talk about a "Telephone Excise Tax Refund"? Did I miss something important this tax season?

you might be able to put it off until Apr 19 if you live in the area affected by the Apr 16 storms. Of course, if you are affected you probably aren't reading this since you're either snowbound or without power. http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=169523,00.html

--> OK - does this guy think that I went "Ohhhhh, I see. Their stuff will now go in the stack for people whose returns need to come out with refunds. Also, note to self: Don't charge them; after all, they could have done it themselves. <--- I like that. I think in the future if someone says they don't want to pay I'll tell them I'll just put their return into the "refund" stack. As for how to charge those who could have done the return themselves, I think you should tell them you decided to forego being a brain surgeon and chose to go into tax preparation. So since you "couild have" been a brain surgeon, you'll charge them brain surgeon rates for preparing their return.

If you obtain an extension, they will avoid the 5% per month Failure To File penalty. However, the client will owe interest on the unpaid balance at about 9% APR and a Failure to Pay penalty of .5% per month, which works out to about 1.25% per month (rounded) on the unpaid balance. I don't believe there would be an estimated tax penalty if the balance due is under $1,000.

Marge: I agree with Cathy. One never knows what unknowns are lurking out there. Even if you know there are refunds due on the return, one never knows what might turn up if the client is audited, and if the IRS subsequently finds tax due the return will be considered late-filed even if there was a refund showing on the original filing. A precautionary extension just removes all those potential headaches.

I want to offer my thanks as well to your taking the time to set up this community. That was very thoughtful of you. I'll gladly help out with the cost. Personally I'd prefer to help pay for it rather than put up with any advertising, no matter how unobtrusive.