Refund from ATX

[grandj48]

It seems that the list of problems with 2012 ATX keeps growing and the fixes seem slow. Is everyone aware that you have until 2/28/2013 to request a refund. They charge you $20 per client filed but that is low for the opportunity to switch to working software. We are getting solicitations everyday to switch and there are some pretty inviting offers.

[jklcpa]

Angry, you aren't the only one that is upset or stressed over the workings of this year's program. We are all struggling with it, and some of us here have purchased other software that is working and plan to ask for a refund before the end of the month. Spamming this unofficial privately owned site isn't helping. What might be helpful is if you stay on topic within the threads.

[jklcpa]

Your rep was certainly out of line. Nowhere in the company's refund policy does it say anything about the customer's request having to be reasonable or qualifies the terms in the way you have described. It allows a dissatisfied customer to request the refund before 2/28 and states that an amount of $20 per return processed, after the first one, will be deducted from the purchase price to be refunded.

FWIW, I tried calling my sales rep for clarification on something, but that extension number is no longer valid. I will be submitting my refund request through the website and following it up with a fax and keeping a copy of the transmission log. I paid early back in May 2012 and spoke with my credit card company to ask whether or not they'd back me up. I explained it to them that the software doesn't even ship out until the end of the year and that the company is supposed to honor refund requests received by 2/28/13. If I had to get the credit card company involved, it would have to be higher up at least to the supervisor level because of this timing and the fact that the refund would be a partial one with deducting the $20 per return.

I'm curious what ATX will refund to me. I efiled one 1040 through the program, but I purchase the TTO bundle and I have also efiled a few 1099s through the payroll part of the program (that is working very well) and a few W-2s that don't go through their system, but create the files that I upload to SSA and my state division of revenue. So it will be interesting to see how they account for the part of the payroll program that I've used.

[Jack from Ohio]

Your rep was certainly out of line. Nowhere in the company's refund policy does it say anything about the customer's request having to be reasonable or qualifies the terms in the way you have described. It allows a dissatisfied customer to request the refund before 2/28 and states that an amount of $20 per return processed, after the first one, will be deducted from the purchase price to be refunded.

FWIW, I tried calling my sales rep for clarification on something, but that extension number is no longer valid. I will be submitting my refund request through the website and following it up with a fax and keeping a copy of the transmission log. I paid early back in May 2012 and spoke with my credit card company to ask whether or not they'd back me up. I explained it to them that the software doesn't even ship out until the end of the year and that the company is supposed to honor refund requests received by 2/28/13. If I had to get the credit card company involved, it would have to be higher up at least to the supervisor level because of this timing and the fact that the refund would be a partial one with deducting the $20 per return.

I'm curious what ATX will refund to me. I efiled one 1040 through the program, but I purchase the TTO bundle and I have also efiled a few 1099s through the payroll part of the program (that is working very well) and a few W-2s that don't go through their system, but create the files that I upload to SSA and my state division of revenue. So it will be interesting to see how they account for the part of the payroll program that I've used.

So, if this is their refund policy, we are out of luck. We have already e-filed 200+ returns and have over 500 in the program. Good Job writers of the ATX contract, Seriously abysmal job, CCH of "Customer Service." CCH and the management thereof, have been the source of all our problems since they purchased ATX.

[Chowdahead]

It seems that the list of problems with 2012 ATX keeps growing and the fixes seem slow. Is everyone aware that you have until 2/28/2013 to request a refund. They charge you $20 per client filed but that is low for the opportunity to switch to working software. We are getting solicitations everyday to switch and there are some pretty inviting offers.

What offers are you getting? Yesterday Drake quoted me via e-mail the standard $285 for the software and $19 per return. They didn't even bother to offer me the software for free and simply pay per return so I could try it out, which is what I wanted.

I have not called Intuit yet for ProSeries. What other offers are out there?

[jklcpa]

What offers are you getting? Yesterday Drake quoted me via e-mail the standard $285 for the software and $19 per return. They didn't even bother to offer me the software for free and simply pay per return so I could try it out, which is what I wanted.

I have not called Intuit yet for ProSeries. What other offers are out there?

Drake gives the 2011 for free to try out and see if you like it. I think you could prepare paper returns with it. You wouldn't be able to efile with it until you pay for their product. The PPR is $285 and includes 15 returns, then $19 for the next 70 returns. After a total of 85 returns, it can be converted to unlimited and you have to call to do this. It is unlocked after the season, so if many of the returns you prepare are going on extension or are fiscal year taxpayers that will be filed later in the year, it might be less expensive to use PPR. If you prepare a lot of returns, it is cheaper to buy the unlimited for $1495 because if you exceed 85 returns before the end of April you would pay over $1600 for the 85 returns on PPR ( $285 + 70 x $19). I went with the PPR to minimize the cash outlay while I tried it out with the hopes that ATX would get better, but I simply don't trust ATX with some of the problems others are having.

[Chowdahead]

Drake gives the 2011 for free to try out and see if you like it. I think you could prepare paper returns with it. You wouldn't be able to efile with it until you pay for their product. The PPR is $285 and includes 15 returns, then $19 for the next 70 returns. After a total of 85 returns, it can be converted to unlimited and you have to call to do this. It is unlocked after the season, so if many of the returns you prepare are going on extension or are fiscal year taxpayers that will be filed later in the year, it might be less expensive to use PPR. If you prepare a lot of returns, it is cheaper to buy the unlimited for $1495 because if you exceed 85 returns before the end of April you would pay over $1600 for the 85 returns on PPR ( $285 + 70 x $19). I went with the PPR to minimize the cash outlay while I tried it out with the hopes that ATX would get better, but I simply don't trust ATX with some of the problems others are having.

That is similar info as what the sales rep just e-mailed me. However, I didn't catch that the $285 PPR includes 15 e-files in his e-mail or on the site. I just double-checked the site and you are correct.

That makes it similar to what I was asking for anyway since I don't plan on completing more than 15 returns with it (I was willing to pay $19 per return).

Thanks for pointing that out!!

[cnccpas]

They should be paying us for every hour lost by their ignorance and lack of care programming. Not to mention begging us to still give them a dime next year. I'm actually surprised that a joint suit hasn't begun talks among their customer base whose businesses have been derailed by their lack of competence.

[SFA]

I just entered a comment in the "emails to support" thread. Probably should have posted it here.

My sales rep: Gil Watts, is not responding to my emails. I also copied his supervisor. Still no response. I renewed on December 27. By that time ATX knew that severe problems were in the works. He gave me no heads up.

We also had problems last year, but somehow, ATX convinced us that the problems were ours. Our Server, our workstations, no problems on their end. Really? Then if all was honkey-dorey, why invest in a rewrite? In hindsite, I spent a lot of money on outside technical support, downtime, upgrade of computer memory, etc. because it was all our fault. And that's just last years investment!

We have a network of 7 desktops and 1 server. This year we did some serious upgrades prior to tax season, and still having problems with slow computing.

Hey Gil--I think you have something to answer for!

[DavidLewisEA]

Drake gives the 2011 for free to try out and see if you like it. I think you could prepare paper returns with it. You wouldn't be able to efile with it until you pay for their product. The PPR is $285 and includes 15 returns, then $19 for the next 70 returns. After a total of 85 returns, it can be converted to unlimited and you have to call to do this. It is unlocked after the season, so if many of the returns you prepare are going on extension or are fiscal year taxpayers that will be filed later in the year, it might be less expensive to use PPR. If you prepare a lot of returns, it is cheaper to buy the unlimited for $1495 because if you exceed 85 returns before the end of April you would pay over $1600 for the 85 returns on PPR ( $285 + 70 x $19). I went with the PPR to minimize the cash outlay while I tried it out with the hopes that ATX would get better, but I simply don't trust ATX with some of the problems others are having.

I think that Intuit's new Intuit Tax Online has a better deal. Disclaimer: I am a former ATX Tax Manager who chose to stay in Florida, and went to work for Intuit's TurboTax product as a Tax Lead. I do NOT get anything from this offer.

ITO is based on the Lacerte engine, I am told. It is cloud based, so you can use it on a Mac or Windows computer (even, Linux or other OS, since it is web-based). You can try it for free, and only pay if you like it and use it. It has all major returns, 1040, 1041, 1120, 1120S, and 1065. And the bundles are less expensive than Drake's PPR quoted above. Here is the link, for those interested in trying it out: http://accountants.intuit.com/tax/online/

[Lee B]

I demoed ITO last month. It seems useable, a bit slow, a little clunky, interview based, not really my cup of tea.

[cnccpas]

lol umm yeah.. intuit.. enough said with that one. Pro Series, for the professional tax preparer who does unlimited 1040s but "limited" business returns. Since when did tax professionals do just a few business returns? lol

[DavidLewisEA]

I demoed ITO last month. It seems useable, a bit slow, a little clunky, interview based, not really my cup of tea.

I like it. It's not true forms based, but I wouldn't call it interview based either. I would consider it a hybrid method, at least compared to other interview based methods that I have seen. But I certainly understand it isn't for everyone. The advantages are that it is web-based, which means that there are no IT problems, no need to update, and usable on any platform that has a supported browser (not to mention the ability to actually go to a client's return at the client's home or business to make last minute changes on the fly); the disadvantage is that it is web-based, so your local ISP and traffic can make a difference in the speed...and if your internet provider is down, you are down.

Still, I have a lot more respect for Intuit since I started work there (I used to consider them the enemy for absorbing my beloved Parsons Technology tax software). They instill an excellent work ethic in their employees, and reward them well. It may be a viable alternative to some, so I thought that I would put it out there. No harm, no foul.

[Numbers]

I think that Intuit's new Intuit Tax Online has a better deal. Disclaimer: I am a former ATX Tax Manager who chose to stay in Florida, and went to work for Intuit's TurboTax product as a Tax Lead. I do NOT get anything from this offer.

ITO is based on the Lacerte engine, I am told. It is cloud based, so you can use it on a Mac or Windows computer (even, Linux or other OS, since it is web-based). You can try it for free, and only pay if you like it and use it. It has all major returns, 1040, 1041, 1120, 1120S, and 1065. And the bundles are less expensive than Drake's PPR quoted above. Here is the link, for those interested in trying it out: http://accountants.intuit.com/tax/online/

Ya, Intuit, right... as soon as they have client data they will start pushing turbo trash on your customer.

[cnccpas]

hehee yeah, or start sending client's sales pitches that intuit will do their taxes for less than your tax preparer. much like quickbooks does to payroll customers. What a way to treat "pro-advisors", recommend their product and have them under-cut you in every point of your business.

[DavidLewisEA]

hehee yeah, or start sending client's sales pitches that intuit will do their taxes for less than your tax preparer. much like quickbooks does to payroll customers. What a way to treat "pro-advisors", recommend their product and have them under-cut you in every point of your business.

As I said, I work there. I also was a Tax Manager for ATX the last five years they were in Florida. I was only trying to help, as I did a few years ago when I worked at ATX. Intuit as a company has far more integrity and customer respect, and treats their employees far better than CCH SFS. But people believe what they want to. As I mentioned earlier, ITO is based on Lacerte, not TT nor Pro Series.

Y'all have a great evening, and I truly hope your tax season gets better.

[David1980]

hehee yeah, or start sending client's sales pitches that intuit will do their taxes for less than your tax preparer. much like quickbooks does to payroll customers. What a way to treat "pro-advisors", recommend their product and have them under-cut you in every point of your business.

But what tax software doesn't have a consumer product? Is there any? I'm ultimately buying software, so it doesn't bother me what other software the company owns just what they're selling me.

[grandj48]

It is interesting to note that updated refund policy now posted gives you until March 30, 2013 . 12.10 is up and we lost the ability to print single pages from any of the communication manager documents and you can't get through to customer support.

[jklcpa]

Good eyes on the date. Maybe CCH thinks if they push the date to 3/31 and keep stringing people users limping along, that those users will say WTH and keep using the program through 4/15. Could be a smart move by them.

[Jack from Ohio]

If they enforce the $20 per filed return, what good is a refund policy? We have e-filed 300 so far. You do the math.

I have e-filed 61 at home so far, so I am SOL here as well.

No doubt that I will not have to call ATX tech support for tax year 2013.

Waiting for the class action suit as well. I will add my name gladly.

If my tax returns had the same level of accuracy and dependablilty as ATX this year, I would be out of business already.

[Mainetaxguy]

SFA, Gil isn't going to respond to your e-mails. Neither is his supervisor. With all the talk about a class action suit after tax season, I suspect all the ATX employees have been told to keep their mouths shut about refunds. Frankly, I will be surprise if Gil or his supervisor are going to be around after tax season. If you were working in sales for ATX, would you stick around after this mess? I doubt it. In order to survive after this debacle, CCH is going to have to lay off about 50% of their sales staff after season, and use that money to upgrade their software for next year (if they are still around by that time). The goal for them after tax season is retention - forget trying to get new customers. Not going to happen this year. I still think CCH may just sell ATX and get completely out of the small firms service business - they have demonstrated that they are not interested in investing serious dollars to help the little guy. For CCH, the major focus is on larger firms and corporations. As mentioned on other posts from others, its clear now ATX was trying to cram three (3) years worth of software upgrades into one (1) year, and then lay off a lot of the programmers after tax season - they failed. Now they are going to have to cut the sales staff after tax season, and encourage the programmers to stay on board one more year. It's how about money, guys. Follow the money.

[joelgilb]

I know ATX is small compared to Wolters Kluwer, but ATX had over 40,000 users. Now not everyone purchased the full product, but with the side products there income must be substantial:

Tax Preparation Packages
1040 $529.00 + $5.00 additional for e-files over 100

1040 Office $799

MAX® $1,249

Total Tax Office $1,779

Total Tax & Accounting $2,749

Performance Bundles
Workflow Bundle $699

Accounting Bundle $899

Research Bundle $849

Total Office Bundle$1,299

Accounting Products

Client Accounting Suite $549.00

Client Accounting Suite with Payroll $849.00

Payroll $399.00

Fixed Asset Manager $449.00

Trial Balance $269.00

Payroll Compliance Reporting $???.??

Online Research
Tax Prep Partner 1040 $249

Tax Prep Partner Standard Bundle $557


Practical Tax Expert Pro $???.??

CCH Essentials $449

IntelliConnect® ???.??

Practice Enhancers
PaperlessPLUS™ $549.00

Audit Shield® $???.??
CPE/Educ
Merchant Services

So lets just say all they make on average is the cost of the Max package . That's $1,249 * 40,0000 users = $49,960,000. Personally I think it is much more than this, possibly 2 times this or more. Would Wolters Kluwer, really want to walk away from 50 to 100 million in gross sales?

And no, I am not forgetting the HUGE 10% early renewal discount (sarcasm intended). My understanding from my rep, is that most of the users don't really take advantage of that anyway.

[JohnH]

Good eyes on the date. Maybe CCH thinks if they push the date to 3/31 and keep stringing people users limping along, that those users will say WTH and keep using the program through 4/15. Could be a smart move by them.

From the standpoint of damage control, I think this may be the smartest move they've made yet.

If there had been a rush for the exits at 2/27-2/28 (and we really don't know if there was or was not one), this would give their customer service people the only response that might head off the stampede.

[grandj48]

Interesting incite about accuracy. I spoke briefly with one of my clients who is a software compliance litegator in Silicon Valley and she suggested that we find out about CCH E&O. If we get hit with IRS penalties and or customers costs because of failure of the software accuracy their may be liability on the part of ATX.

[TaxesNE1]

The ATX "refund policy" was never intended to address the situation we all see this year. They are looking at a potential product liability lawsuit for producing and selling a defective product. The only timing issue, of course, would be the statute of limitations in your particular state.