rfassett come back!

[SFA]

Darn It. rfassett contributed many thoughtful ideas, strategies and made important points here in the ATX Community. I didn't always agree, but I have a healthy respect for rfassett. I for one will miss rfassett's input and insight.

[Guest Taxed]

I second that.

[Margaret CPA in OH]

What a shame that we have lost yet another contributing and knowledgeable professional due primarily to the unprofessionalism of some of our posters. It is difficult to believe that some of the rhetoric written here would ever be verbalized in a physical workplace. The relative anonymity of this listserv has benefits but, sadly, we also are seeing some of the drawbacks. Would that we all behave in a professional, adult manner as the vast majority of us do...

[easytax]

Hi,

Don't know this person BUT if they left because somebody "picked on them" --- then I'd support them coming back and maybe -- given what ever the proper circumstances might be --- for the "picker" to be chastised and "shunned-- maybe".

Now if they left because folks disagreed with them and they either couldn't or didn't want to "handle it" --- then, that is their choice.

Everyone has the right to their opinions and to voicing those opinions, etc. If they become too obnoxious, then it's up to the moderators to do their job - moderate. if THE PERSON BEING "PICKED ON" DOESN'T STAND UP FOR THEMSELVES AND/OR ASK FOR help -- moderation, who/how is it to be known that it bothers them.

Again, personal responsibility starts with --- the person offended, bothered, etc. at least saying they are bothered, offended and for the bothering/offending person to stop it. If the offended/bothered person can't or won't do that ---- that's their choice --- so they basically are reaping their circumstances.

Had an associate almost lose their position because they made a statement that offended a women at a company dinner. She didn't say anything to them (they didn't know this would or did offend her). However she went to HR and complained -- HR asked person and he said he did say whatever it was --- they suspended him and were considering termination. Long story short - in this case the person (man) would NOT have said whatever --- if he knew before hand --- and once he did say it, he wouldn't have again IF he knew it did offend some one. A lot of regulation used for person LACKING personal responsibility it saying something offended/bothered them. In this case and/or similar cases --- yes -- if the person continues the offending/bothersome practice, etc. --- then bring in HR, (moderators), etc. -- but give the offender/botherer a chance first ---- sometimes they (I'm guilty and clueless sometimes) they JUST DON'T GET IT - so tell them - then they know.

Long way to say, yes rfassett come back; we all need and want those that try to help with answers and oponions --- even if we wouldn't agree with them ----- we support your RIGHT to say them.

Ed Naglich

[Jack from Ohio]

I thought that this discussion board was inhabited by GROWN ADULTS?

Did I miss something about "tissue paper feelings" being catered to.

School children get the teacher or principal to intervene when being "picked on." I thought as grown adults, we were to be much more mature about how we handle such perceived "being picked on." As an adult, I do not need a moderator to play the part of the school teacher or principal. I am a grown adult.

Just my opinion.

[easytax]

I thought that this discussion board was inhabited by GROWN ADULTS?

Did I miss something about "tissue paper feelings" being catered to.

School children get the teacher or principal to intervene when being "picked on." I thought as grown adults, we were to be much more mature about how we handle such perceived "being picked on." As an adult, I do not need a moderator to play the part of the school teacher or principal. I am a grown adult.

Just my opinion.

Can't argue with that --- I'm same way. The "however" here is that I've seen a lot of folks (former career in law enforcement) where a lot of the people needed someone to "step in" and protect/stand up for them AFTER they tried it themselves but couldn't "get there" or stop an ongoing thing. That's what I mean by moderator "stepping in".

Never-the-less, I BELIEVE the person is still responsible to let the offender/botherer know they are offended/bothered and if things continue ---- then to either remove themselves from the situation or seek help from someone --- such as a moderator.

As a side note: I've also seen where the entities/people that someone might go to for assistance when they can't get it done themselves --- make a bigger mess and cause even more havoc than existed before (think government - micro-regulation).

[Jack from Ohio]

Can't argue with that --- I'm same way. The "however" here is that I've seen a lot of folks (former career in law enforcement) where a lot of the people needed someone to "step in" and protect/stand up for them AFTER they tried it themselves but couldn't "get there" or stop an ongoing thing. That's what I mean by moderator "stepping in".

Never-the-less, I BELIEVE the person is still responsible to let the offender/botherer know they are offended/bothered and if things continue ---- then to either remove themselves from the situation or seek help from someone --- such as a moderator.

As a side note: I've also seen where the entities/people that someone might go to for assistance when they can't get it done themselves --- make a bigger mess and cause even more havoc than existed before (think government - micro-regulation).

Understand what you are saying. However, this is JUST A DISCUSSION BOARD on the internet. Big difference than the situations you were faced with as a law enforcement officer.

[Mr. Pencil]

I thought that this discussion board was inhabited by GROWN ADULTS?

Grown adults can and should have sensitive feelings. It isn't the victim's fault if someone is abusive. This forum allows plenty of leeway for subjective opinions, but still requires civility. In particular, personal insults violate our terms. I don't think there is an exception even if the insult is true. Asking the moderators to uphold our terms is what a grown adult would normally do.

[Jack from Ohio]

Grown adults can and should have sensitive feelings. It isn't the victim's fault if someone is abusive. This forum allows plenty of leeway for subjective opinions, but still requires civility. In particular, personal insults violate our terms. I don't think there is an exception even if the insult is true. Asking the moderators to uphold our terms is what a grown adult would normally do.

Yada Yada Yada

[Guest Taxed]

Yada Yada Yada

Moderators, is that a personal insult to Mr. Pencil

[Jack from Ohio]

Yada Yada Yada

Moderators, is that a personal insult to Mr. Pencil

Oh Ms. Principal moderator... He made fun of me!!!!!!

[Mr. Pencil]

Moderators, is that a personal insult to Mr. Pencil

Thanks, Taxed, but I see it as a simple confirmation of my main point.!

[kcjenkins]

See, if you don't take everything as an insult, it can end it without escalating it. That is an adult way to deal with it. Jack might have been looking for a fight, but happily he did not get one. I'm sorry rfassett did not deal with a similar situation as well, but hopefully he'll be back later. I did not really understand why Judy gave him one, but I did not think it was that big a deal.

[Mr. Pencil]

if you don't take everything as an insult, it can end it without escalating it. That is an adult way to deal with it.

That is Jack's position, but the flaw is that it blames (or praises) the victim, without holding the perpetrator responsible. Even if I am personally able to shrug off a disparaging remark, another member might still be offended at personal insults to anyone. So let's continue to maintain civil respect.

[Guest Taxed]

I learned a long time ago that he who throws personal insults already lost the point in the debate!

[SFA]

I learned a long time ago that he who throws personal insults already lost the point in the debate!

Yes, but if you're going down, you might as well go down in flames. Sometimes it feels so good to throw out a cheap shot--until later, when remorse ruins all the guilty pleasure! I know about this. I've been married for almost 40 years, and I haven't always taken the high road. Thankfully, we have learned how and when to say "I'm sorry" and mean it.

[kcjenkins]

Well that is certainly true. And Taxed does not always resist, either. But she's getting better [smarter] about that. And Jack is trying, also. I think we're all trying to keep the tone better.

[JohnH]

.

I think we're all trying to keep the tone better.

I agree.

[jklcpa]

I will also agree that the tone is mostly getting better. This isn't just a discussion board or chat room on the internet. It is a professional forum that should be able to maintain a level of civility and decorum without personal attacks and insults.

Recently several members have said that they found this forum to be very unprofessional at times. I hope that they will change their minds as things continue to improve, and that we can get back to this being a friendly place where people are willing to help each other with problems or issues.

[easytax]

Perhaps once we get back into tax season we'll be discussing tax questions and maybe get away from the "general trend". After all this is a general forum. We just aren't super busy with tax questions, software questions --- right now.

Being able to share ideas and opinions here generally may sometimes get "spicy" but as they say -- that's why there's vanilla and strawberry (although I'm really a pistachio almond guy).

[Jack from Ohio]

I still stand in favor or removing the political forum. Less chance of tissue paper feelings being hurt that way.

If we can prevent even one person from having hurt feelings, we should shut down the political forum.

[Guest Taxed]

I still stand in favor or removing the political forum. Less chance of tissue paper feelings being hurt that way.

If we can prevent even one person from having hurt feelings, we should shut down the political forum.

I think the reason Politics forum was created was to keep other people from getting bored by the political debates you and I have all the time. I do recall many posters I think, Lion, OldJack come to mind who like it that way so that people who are not interested in all the political stuff can just concentrate on the tax stuff in the General forum.

[Richcpaman]

I have *known* Ron for a long time from various internet Tax Forums.

If he has been run off? It probably has something to do with dealing with folks who just do not get it, and will never get it, and that is just how the world works sometimes.

Some folks have all the answers and it does't matter what others may think or to be respecful in disagreement.

Sorry you had to beat your head against the wall, Ron.

You are one of the good guys.

Rich

[taxxcpa]

There are those whose approach to all questions is "it's my way or the highway."

[easytax]

I still stand in favor or removing the political forum. Less chance of tissue paper feelings being hurt that way.

If we can prevent even one person from having hurt feelings, we should shut down the political forum.

I think the reason Politics forum was created was to keep other people from getting bored by the political debates you and I have all the time. I do recall many posters I think, Lion, OldJack come to mind who like it that way so that people who are not interested in all the political stuff can just concentrate on the tax stuff in the General forum.

I like the idea of the "political forum" as I can ignore it or participate AND STILL have a good tax forum for my questions and to try to help others. I'm still also on ATX forum and "wade" through a lot of comments on their "general forum" that I'd just as soon "skip"" as redundant, political, old, or just not tax related. As a believer in "sharing" and "letting off steam", being extroverted (I'm really an introvert); it's worth supporting "general section" but I'd rather still skip some (as mentioned).

Here -- there is the best of both worlds.