Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Not really seeking advice here...just had to share this and I don't know anybody who could understand/appreciate this as well as the members of this forum: Returning client....Single mom (or at least WAS a single mom) with one daughter in college. IF she was still single, she would have had a refund of approx. $5,000....EIC and AOC...similar to last year. Also, due to her low one-income household, her daughter would get a sizeable Pell Grant for college (approx. $3,000). BUT....she went and got married in December 2013. Her new husband refuses to file taxes...According to my client he has never filed taxes. He has a source of income (not sure what it is or if I want to know, but I assume cash under the table. Frankly I'm surprised he's a free man...for many reasons...taxes and otherwise....dude may as well have loser stamped on his forehead. but she loves him. I'm guessing, but I don't think Mr. Loser made that much under the table....If they filed joint, refund would probably still be sizeable...AOC and likely still EIC....and daughter could get FAFSA filed. Sooo....MFS, her refund is only $600.00. She can't file the FAFSA application for daughter unless Mr. loser's taxes are filed...he will not even give her any information about his income......still...he will NOT file...based on principal he claims. So I told client that her "love" may cost her (and her daughter) approx. $7,400 (or more) this year in hopes that she can knock some sense into him. what life situation was ever improved in the long-term by tax evasion? I have filed the FAFSA many times...but always as a single parent.....does anybody know if she CAN file it without any of Mr. Loser's financial information? The refund is bad enough, but I would hate to see the daughter not be able to complete the FAFSA.....grants, loans, scholarships...all depend on FAFSA being filed. Thanks...rant over 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I really have no idea...but if he isn't the parent....why should his income count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Isn't there a "half year rule".....and if you didn't live with the spouse for over half the year you can be HH ....even if married. If the got married in December ....maybe it applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I don't think HOH is an option.....If married on 12/31/13 filing options are MFS or MFJ.....To be considered Separated and considered unmarried (living apart from spouse for 1/2 year or more), I think you need to be married first. I think that once you get married, the incomes of both parent and spouse are considered for Financial aid purposes....That's one of the main reasons I have been engaged but not married for the past 4 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 married filing separate, with spouse income -0-, no return required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Once again there seems to be a lack of common sense with whomever makes these rules. OTOH....he probably made more than $7400 by doing whatever it is that he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 married filing separate, with spouse income -0-, no return required? Very true...if husband has no income...there's nothing to add to hers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 The problem is he has income. Client just sent me a text that in addition to his cash under the table job, he has a "normal" part-time W-2 job...He just refuses to file. A) How does one just refuse to file....IRS gets a copy of the W-2...They know you have income. B ) Depending on his income & withholdings, he may be entitled to a refund C) Even if his W-2 income is low enough that he does not need to file a return, the loser still needs to let client/spouse know what his W-2 income is for FAFSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 You can lead a horse to water, but you can't fix stupid. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 There may be plenty of reasons why she wouldn't want to file MFJ with him, irrespective of what he wishes to do. . If there are W-2's or 1099's floating around with his SocSec#, then there may also be SFR's out there. Maybe the system hasn't been able to catch up with him due to address changes, non-filing etc. So when a return goes in with his SocSec#, the computer is going to pounce. If it's a MFJ return, then the refund will be seized or reduced If it's a MFS return, the system will now have a current address for him and maybe some ugly notices will follow. But not to worry - love conquers all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 bingo Did she give you his name and SS number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Yes JohnH....I am assuming (as I think my client/spouse) is assuming these very issues will apply.....But for the sake of the daughter's financial aid, the dude needs to file..even if they go MFS. Nobody can run from IRS (and state/local) forever...time for this guy to be a husband and father and do what needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Yes JohnH....I am assuming (as I think my client/spouse) is assuming these very issues will apply.....But for the sake of the daughter's financial aid, the dude needs to file..even if they go MFS. Nobody can run from IRS (and state/local) forever...time for this guy to be a husband and father and do what needs to be done. True...didn't Al Capone get caught for tax evasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I do have his name and SSN...So I can at least get hers done...at which point, I'm sure a computer somewhere will find his SSN and various agencies will start sending notices to him...That's why I say he should just go ahead and file now....the hide-and-seek game will be over....He should just put it all out there and deal with it. Easy for me to say...I know...but dang...at some point, you just gotta put on your big-boy pants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 So, JB. Are you practicing what you're going to say to her if he bolts after the IRS gets hot on his trail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 JB...I'm not saying this as anything against you....but you really have to stay out of people's personal issues/marriages. If this were my client I would tell her the facts...and that she might be better served by someone else. And then she and that preparer can figure out what's best for her. I do this a lot with my non-resident aliens who have treaty issues. I don't want to be responsible for the tax return I prepare generating problems in the future.....personal/professional/financial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't think HOH is an option.....If married on 12/31/13 filing options are MFS or MFJ.....To be considered Separated and considered unmarried (living apart from spouse for 1/2 year or more), I think you need to be married first.Yes, and it has to be (at least) the LAST six months of the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza 23B Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 In my personal opinion, this client should never file MFJ with this husband until after such time as he has filed all back tax returns and paid all taxes, penalties and interest due. All his taxes, penalties and interest may be much greater than the tax credits and financial aid currently available. I had a situation some years ago with a new client much like the above. Couple married in 2009 and filed MFJ with tax return prepared by another preparer. IRS took the refund she was expecting for his unfiled back taxes (1099s were issued by the contractors that hired him as a subcontractor). I filed 2004-2008 for him as single and 2010 for both of them as MFS. They are no longer clients of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted March 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Unfortunately, Joint refunds being taken for debts of one of the spouses is not a new issue for me....I have many married clients that file as MFS (even though the MFJ refund would be better) for this reason. The problem here is that the guy refuses to file at all...and he has income....so this is stopping her from completing the FAFSA for her daughter. As far has sticking my nose in her personal business, I have no choice. She has only been my client for 2 years, but has been a friend of the family since we were in grade school and was by my side when my wife passed away 7 years ago...so I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately, she has chosen to lean on me when it comes to financial matters. I will avoid advice in regards to her personal life at all costs...and if this guy does not choose to file...well so be it. I just need to deal with her tears as professionally as possible. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasdlm Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Hi, JB. I don't know if it would help her to show Step-Father the cite, but here it is: The specific statutory citation that supports this is 20 USC 1087oo(f)(3), which is section 475(f)(3) of the Higher Education Act of 1965: B ) My custodial parent remarried and signed a prenuptial agreement that absolves the stepparent from financial responsibility for my education. Why does my stepparent have to provide financial information on the FAFSA?Remarried parents If a parent whose income and assets are taken into account under paragraph (1) of this subsection, or if a parent who is a widow or widower and whose income is taken into account under paragraph (2) of this subsection, has remarried, the income of that parent's spouse shall be included in determining the parent's adjusted available income only if -- (A) the student's parent and the stepparent are married as of the date of application for the award year concerned; and ( the student is not an independent student. Prenuptial agreements are ignored by the federal need analysis process. After all, two individuals (parent and stepparent) cannot make an agreement between them that is binding on a third party (the federal government). The federal government considers the stepparent a source of support regardless of any prenuptial agreements to the contrary. If a stepparent marries the parent, he or she is considered responsible for supporting the parent and children even if he or she is unwilling to do so. Edited March 17, 2014 by jklcpa removed sunglass-wearing smiley :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 JB- I hope you didn't take offense about not getting involved....none was meant. But, this is a perfect example of why it's best to avoid doing friends's tax returns. There are times we are better off not knowing their personal details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEA Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 She can file the FAFSA with out him. My wife filed it with out me for my step children for years.I paid for college but we received more money with out me. As a step father I did not have to show.We went to an education consultant help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 whatever advise you do wind up giving, make sure its in writing so she can't blame you for any results of her filing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 She can file the FAFSA with out him. My wife filed it with out me for my step children for years.I paid for college but we received more money with out me. We went to an education consultant help us. As a single mother getting zero grants for the three kids I have put through college / trade school with zero help from their dad, this seems incredibly wrong to me. Not a personal attack on anyone, I'm just tired of the way things work. Your wife got taxpayer help at the same time she had you to provide for her. And just to be clear, I don't think taxpayers should be helping anybody go to college. Not everybody should go to college, and we have caused education expenses to be obscene because we have taken political correctness to the extreme by handing out grants. That was my whine for the day, I will now get back to work, it seems that my tax dollars are needed by a lot of people. And, yes, I am well aware that nothing is fair. MDEA, I am not slamming you. You paid for advice and took it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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