Outdated Format for Print Packages

[AH CPA]

So, I have a big problem with the way ATX only gives you Client Letters, Cover Sheets, and Efile Signature forms in the Client Documents section.  What tax professional is going to give their client the federal & state instruction letters in front of their federal tax return only.  Logically the federal cover sheet, federal instruction letter, & federal efile signature authorization form belongs in front of the federal tax return.  While the state cover sheet, state instruction letter, & state efile signature authorization form belongs in front of the state tax return.  And then in some parts of the USA you have local returns too. So, the local cover sheet, local instruction letter, & local efile signature authorization form belongs in front of the local tax return too.  An example of a local return would be a NYC Corporation tax return.  

The way ATX is designed these state and local cover sheets, state and local instruction letters, and state and local efile signature authorization forms print out before the federal tax return only which may be 50 pages out of order.  The documents can't be moved down to other print sections and therefore can't be printed in front of their respective returns.  This might have been OK years ago when we sent paper copies to our clients or put paper copies in our file cabinets and we could just move the pages that are out of order in front of these tax returns.  However, in today's world of PDF's this doesn't work.  So, to get my PDF print collation in a professional order that makes sense I must first print my federal cover sheet, federal instruction letter, federal efile authorization form, and federal tax return.  I then must print the return a 2nd time and print my state cover sheet, state instruction letter, state efile authorization form, and state tax return.  Then if I have a local return I must print the return a 3rd time.  If I have federal and state estimates I then must print it a 4th time for the federal estimates and a 5th time for the state estimates.  I have to do this for the Preparer Copy and I have do it all again for the Client Copy.  So, I might have to print one tax return up to 10 times to get a professional looking collation for the PDF output.  Luckily I have a PDF printer product that allows me to accumulate all the PDF's into one PDF file before saving it.

This is crazy and quite a waste of time.  I'm new to ATX but the way the output sections are designed I don't see any way to make a custom print package in the order I mentioned above to overcome this problem.  If anyone could give me some guidance on how I could design a custom print package to accomplish printing the covers and letters in front of each applicable tax return I would welcome your help.

I'm not a programmer but my suggestion to ATX on how to easily fix this based on their current output design would be to create a Federal Client Documents section in front of the Federal Forms section like it is now, a State Client Documents section in front of the State Forms section, and a Local Client Documents section in front Local Forms sections of the output.

ATX it's time to deal with this issue before the 2017 tax season.

 

[SaraEA]

In our office we do on purpose what ATX is making you do, i.e., put the things the client needs to attend to up front.  So, for example, we collate fed payment instructions and voucher, fed ES instructions and voucher (knowing they will make out checks and it's easier for them to make out two in a row to US Treasury), state payment instructions and voucher, state ES, then the returns.  Even when they have refunds, we put the fed and state instructions up front because most of them only want to know how much they're getting back without digging through the whole folder.  If we are delivering the returns to the client electronically, I usually send two messages--one for docs to sign and return, the other containing the returns.  Even then, I've had a few who print out and sign page two of the 1040 and return that.  How could I make it clearer than a separate message labeled "documents to sign and return to us"?!

[jklcpa]

AH, you might think about printing as a pdf file and then rearrange the pages within that file to your liking. Print paper copies from that one file.

[Jack from Ohio]

I simply don't use any of the letters.  95% of people don't read letters anyway.

[Richcpaman]

AH:

I agree with you completely.  The print capabilities of the ATX Software has not in any way shape or form kept up with the technology that is available out there.

And if you are new to ATX, then you don't know how bad it used to be....

Every one of us preparer's puts their returns together differently.  And we can not sort all the forms into the order we want, we are stuck with the order they give us. 

I adjust the client letters to add my letterhead and other changes to make them unique.  It used to be a real PITA but at least is carries over that formatting each year now. 

I wish I could fill in the selections on the Print Screen for all 4 columns, SAVE IT, and then let my staff print the PDF's and paper returns later.

Rich 

[rfassett]

I guess my office is a bit of an old school type office.  We use the tools we have at hand as just that - tools.  We print out the letters as combined federal, state, and local including whatever estimated payment information is needed.  We also print out the cover letters for all of those.  We print all of that with one time printing of all of the forms and schedules required.  We then organize the hard copy the way we want to present it to the client and then scan that document into our digital file cabinet.  (This also allows us to take a final look at the return for review purposes).

If we were expecting ATX to do all of that work for us, I would expect to pay a lot more for ATX.  By the way, if we need a pdf copy of the return, we can get that from our digital file cabinet in whole or any part of it we need.

For the record, my client base falls into the 5% of Jack's comment that actually do read the letters - well most of them anyway will read it - or we read it to them.

[Abby Normal]

You can't move forms between sections, but you can use the 4 available packets to group like things together.

For example, on 1040:
Filing: personal property return (If the Sch C has one)
Client: estimate letter and estimate forms
Preparer: Cover sheet, letter, tax forms, statements & worksheets
Custom: Engagement letter, efile signature forms, payment vouchers and bank info worksheet

On 1065 & 1120S:
Filing: personal property return
Client: K1s for federal and state
Preparer: Cover sheet, letter, tax forms, statements & worksheets
Custom: Engagement letter, efile signature forms

It's not 100% perfect because you have to check or uncheck a few letters and other pages because they are not included in the Print Packets set up screen. But it certainly works very well for us.

We print each packet to a PDF file, which I have written macros to save typing for naming the files.

I open the tax return pdf in an editor and move all the notes and comparison pages to just before the state tax return because when I'm viewing a return I like page 1 of the tax return to be just after the letter so I don't have a lot of scrolling to do to find the tax return.

As for printing the cover sheet and letter in front of the state returns, well, sometimes you just have to go with the flow.

[AH CPA]

Thanks for everyone's responses.

I realize everyone has their own style on how they like there returns collated.  I do realize some people do like the combined federal/state instruction letter format although I am not a fan.  As I mentioned in my original post I'm not using paper printouts of the returns at all but only use a PDF file for both my preparer copy and the client copy.  It is obviously very easy to move pages around if they are printed out on paper and although pages can be moved around in a PDF that is a real hassle.

Since I am using PDF's I obviously have the whole return available without the digital cabinet.  My PDF in the client folder is my digital cabinet.

In addition, since I am only sending PDF's to my client I make a separate PDF file titled IRS & State Efile Signature Authorization Form for Signature.  In this file I only put the federal instruction letter, the IRS efile signature form, the state instruction letter, and the state efile signature form.  This way there are only 4 pages in this file for the client to deal with and they read the letters and sign the efile forms and return them to me.  I use the same idea for the quarterly estimates using a separate file just with the instruction letters and estimate coupons.  This gives the client just the pages they have to deal with in those files.  I then include another PDF with the Client Copy watermark on it with all the pages of the returns and estimates where they can go through it and review the returns.  I even instruct my clients in my email that in an effort to be greener they should save the Client Copy PDF file to a folder on their computer called Taxes and only printout a paper copy if they need it.  My PDF file is encrypted so it should be safe on their computers.  Although nothing is safe these days.

Richcpaman and Abby Normal you guys get what I'm talking about.  Richcpaman, I too put my letterhead logo into the client instruction letters and my signature too and that makes the letters look very professional.

Abby Normal if they did implement my suggestion to make a Federal Client Letter section and a State Client Letter section you would still need to create custom print packages to get things to print in the order you want them in but the way it is designed now with not being able to move forms between print sections that is impossible.

Rfassett, why would you expect to pay more if ATX allows you to print instruction letters either in the federal or state form sections or in the federal client documents and a state client documents section?  I don't believe this is a very extensive change to the ATX software.  CCH must have spent a lot of money integrating the research feature into most of the fields in ATX for 2016 but they didn't charge us a lot more money for this enhancement and although I see the merits of adding this feature I haven't had to use it yet.  The programming changes to the output sections are far less involved than that and I would not expect ATX to charge us anymore for the product.  They might just raise their prices in general but not for this enhancement.  

And, I do expect the program to do all the work.  That's what computer programs are supposed to do, improve your efficiency.  The efficiency that I have gained by using the software to prepare the actual tax returns is lost for me in creating the collated PDF output.  The output should be the easiest and most efficient part of the program for the end user.

I would like to urge all the ATX users that agree with me to start a support case for this enhancement.  If they get enough user asking for this they might do something about this.

[Jack from Ohio]

5 hours ago, AH CPA said:

I would like to urge all the ATX users that agree with me to start a support case for this enhancement.  If they get enough user asking for this they might do something about this.

It will never happen.  Many of us have been asking for templates since 2006.  Large numbers of us continue to ask.  Here is ATX's official response:

"We cannot expend resources to provide a feature for such a small subset of our clients."  This was face to face with the President of the ATX division.  I don't know who the major subset of clients are, but they are driving the ship.

[Lion EA]

If how your .pdf appears, without you moving pages, is a high priority, you will want to spend this off-season demo-ing tax prep software to find one with priorities more similar to yours.

[Abby Normal]

On 6/6/2017 at 8:03 AM, Richcpaman said:

I wish I could fill in the selections on the Print Screen for all 4 columns, SAVE IT, and then let my staff print the PDF's and paper returns later.

You can if you choose to print all 4 to PDF. Check the box to remember your selections, click print and when the save dialog comes up, just press Esc.

[Abby Normal]

10 hours ago, Jack from Ohio said:

Many of us have been asking for templates since 2006

But ATX knows you have a workaround for this. Just create a blank template return that you copy for new client set up.

[Abby Normal]

17 hours ago, AH CPA said:

I would like to urge all the ATX users that agree with me to start a support case for this enhancement

Just submitted the following in the Enhancements forum. Please go and add a comment to show your support or add your suggestions:

1. Split Client Documents into federal and state so those who want state docs with the state forms can rearrange it.
2. Show all letters, including those created from a blank template. I always have to check and uncheck letters in the print dialog because they are not listed in print packets.
3. Some forms don't show in individual because they are tagged as business. For example, the MD Form 1. Sch C's that are an LLC need this form in the individual print packet. I'm sure other users can point to other forms that need to be available across all the packages.
4. Expand forms to the page level so we can check or uncheck individual pages.

 

[Jack from Ohio]

On 6/7/2017 at 10:52 AM, Abby Normal said:

But ATX knows you have a workaround for this. Just create a blank template return that you copy for new client set up.

I don't want a workaround.  All the complaints here, also have a workaround.  

If ATX only made changes for things without a workaround, there would never be any changes.

Workarounds take up time I could be using in profitable ways.

Let us know how your campaign works out.  Took over 10 years to get them to show e-file status on the return manager page.  There was always a workaround that was clumsy and time consuming.

[Abby Normal]

I don't find my blank template to be either clumsy or time consuming.

ATX makes a good amount of changes every year and they are often things of which I approve or even have suggested. I'm pleased with ATX's progress and confident that they are making good choices about which suggestions to implement and which to not implement given the the time and money constraints they are under.