Disgusted II, but now a bit worried ;~(

[Denne]

You guys have been so great offering me good advise. Need to ask for some ideas on this same issue however. I sent the letter and billing statement to the client. He called several times today and left messages while I was on the phone or with clients. I have to confess.....I also dodged the call twice too. I thought six calls in one day was excessive. I want him to read the letter I sent and then act like a real human being instead of a bulldozer.....might not happen however. I didn't call him back after his six calls today so he not only showed up at my office, while I was with a client, but did not knock....just walked into my home....where my office is. He said he wasn't getting results what the phone and needed copies of his payroll taxes for the year and wanted me to prepare a balance sheet for him. I had a client and her little girl in my office. I wonder what she thought about the whole incident. Anyway, I told him, truthfully that I had been exceptionally busy and had had time to even think about getting anything ready for him. Of course he didn't offer any payement either.....no surprise there. As he walked out the door he said he would expect me to fax him what he needed by tomorrow morning. I have a feeling he will be back here tomorrow afternoon if he doesn't get what he wants in the morning. I have appointments here so I am sure he will just walk in again.

Do you feel I HAVE to give him anything? I consider these my working papers and want to keep them in my file. Who knows what this PITA will do next..... I included in my letter that any future requests for service will be in writing so I have proof to justify my fees for future services. Isn't this future service??? He had the original payroll taxes in his hands every quarter and could have made copies for himself at any time. For 18 years he has never wantted a copy of the taxes and most clients don't seem to know what to do with the copies anyway. I figured I fired him yesterday when I wrote the letter. A very professional letter. I wonder if he would also expect a fired employee to leave without a last paycheck and come back to work if he wanted him?????

I have a feeling he is going to tell me he won't pay me until I provide everything he wants. I am taking the position that I will not provide anything else until he pays for what he has received already. I really don't want to end up in court, but I have no reason to believe he will pay me. He has been dishonest with me the last two months...after I look back....as he was preparing to stop doing business with me....and asking me to do all sorts of extra things during the past two months. Very deceptive really.

Need some suggestions as to how to handle this matter....it may come to a head tomorrow. Thank you in advance! Hope I don't have to call the police in, but may come to that ;~(

[jainen]

>>he would expect me to fax him what he needed by tomorrow morning<<

In my opinion, what this guy really needs can't be faxed. Anyway, I suggest you fax him your invoice marked "Final," with a note saying the ADDITIONAL work he has requested is now available for pickup with cash payment in full. Repeat that explanation without changing if he phones or visits on any other terms.

[Denne]

>>he would expect me to fax him what he needed by tomorrow morning<<

In my opinion, what this guy really needs can't be faxed. Anyway, I suggest you fax him your invoice marked "Final," with a note saying the ADDITIONAL work he has requested is now available for pickup with cash payment in full. Repeat that explanation without changing if he phones or visits on any other terms.

So, would you also charge him for the additional copies I will need to make then....any my time?

I really think he is going to go through the roof about paying first either way....cash is a good idea too!

Thanks...

[ed_accountant]

I agree you should get paid first! Receive the pastdue payments before you make any additional copies for him. I would not give this guy your files but offer to photocopy them for a fee.

If you start to do things for free he will keep coming back..

Good luck!

[Denne]

I agree you should get paid first! Receive the pastdue payments before you make any additional copies for him. I would not give this guy your files but offer to photocopy them for a fee.

If you start to do things for free he will keep coming back..

Good luck!

You have a point there. I expect he will call several times needing various things.....

[Catherine]

You have a point there. I expect he will call several times needing various things.....

If he barges in on you at home without knocking again I would call the police. Maybe even call the non-emergency number this morning and ask their advice -- you want it on record with them. But definitely lock your door!!

His original documents you can't keep. Anything you have done for him, for which he has not paid, isn't his yet. A loaf of bread in your shopping basket at the store isn't yours until after you pay for it. Trying to leave the store before then is stealing. This guy is trying to steal your work. Cash in hand first and then you hand over your work.

[elfling]

A loaf of bread in your shopping basket at the store isn't yours until after you pay for it. Trying to leave the store before then is stealing. This guy is trying to steal your work. Cash in hand first and then you hand over your work.

Catherine,

I love that analogy. May I use the it in the future as an example? I tutor local high school students taking business classes during fall semester.

Elfling

[rfassett]

In my opinion, and admittedly I have not been following this story, but I think the very first thing you need to do is take control of the situation. You do that by taking the offensive. If he wants to talk to you, do not play hard to get. Since it is clear that you operate on an appoitment basis, call him and say that you have a time available at such and such a time. Tell him to bring his check book and you will tell him how much to make the check for at the time. At the meeting, you get a complete list of what he wants from you and then you determine what the fee will be for that work. Once he gives you the check, then tell him when he can pick up the info. If he balks, you tell him that is your policy - no pay, no work. One thing you mentioned was troubling to me, however. You said something that made me believe you do not give your clients copies of their filings. We give the client a copy of everything that is sent to the government. That way, I am always in a position to tell the client that he already has a copy of it and if he wants another copy, I quote our copying charge and tell the client to bring a check when they pick up the copy. You would be amazed at how many people find the original copy that we gave them. Anyway, I don't care if they use their copy for toilet paper, there is never any doubt that they did receive a copy. Good luck!

[OldJack]

In my experience it is not worth your time to deal with this situation further. Give the man copies of everything he wants and be done with it. If he refuses to pay for your service, forget it and consider it advertising or a cost of doing business. This guy will bad mouth you for years if he is not happy. However, you will be in the position to say he is the kind of person that doesn't pay their bills.

[BulldogTom]

Denne,

Is there anyone at the house with you? If not, lock the door. Take care of your own safety first.

I would tread very carefully with this guy. No more work, period. However, I would give him copies of anything recent that has been paid for, free of charge.

I would send him a fax this morning that includes the letter you sent in the mail and the invoice for services not paid. Let him know that anything unpaid for will not be provided. Tell him you will meet with him at a certain time, and have someone at the meeting with you as a witness. If he shows up unannounced, tell him you will call the police if he does not leave. If he doesn't leave, call the police.

If he agrees to a meeting time (a time of your choosing)have everything ready to give to him. Hand over what has been paid for and any source documents he has provided. Tell him what work you have already completed that you will provide when payment is made. Don't negotiate, tell him.

Remember to have a person in the meeting with you. You should not meet with this guy alone.

Good Luck. Stay safe. The payment is not worth what this could turn into.

Tom

Lodi, CA

[ILLMAS]

I don't doubt your client as a new accountant, like every accountant here on the forum "we don't like duplicating work" when we can get it from the prior accountant. Send this client to the crapper, tell him the BS is on last year tax return (if it's a corporation), have his new accountant work for his money.

[Lion EA]

Give him the telephone numbers to order copies of his filed returns (S&U, payroll, tax, etc.) from the taxing authorities as an alternative to your up-front, cash-only charge to make copies of prior returns -- but only those he has paid for in the past. List the prior work you have done for him for the last year or so and the fees he has paid. List the work you have done that is still unpaid and the fees and the total due and payable now. Have him list the additional work/copies he wants you to do, then add your fees and hand it back to him or fax it back if all of this is taking place via fax. Ask him for a time in which he will bring cash for you to hand over new work.

I like the idea of checking with your local police for advice to be prepared.

[Lion EA]

And, for pete's sake, for all new work, new copies of old work, anything that wasn't billed before -- definitely charge your new billing rates that you would use for a new client, especially for a one-time project and not likely to be a continuing client, and not your old, much-too-low rates that you charged him in the past !!!

[Catherine]

Catherine,

I love that analogy. May I use the it in the future as an example? I tutor local high school students taking business classes during fall semester.

Elfling

Absolutely feel free to use the analogy, Elfling.

[taxxcpa]

He is an undesirable client whether he pays or not. I would return all documents he has provided and explain that you cannot do them for several weeks, but if he can find someone less busy, he can take the documents to them in order to meet his timeline.

I would rather forfeit the amount he owes than to deal with him. If you hold out waiting for him to pay you, it is probably going to result in no pay still. Your only hope would be to go to small claims court, but do you have the time to spend going to court?

[Denne]

I don't doubt your client as a new accountant, like every accountant here on the forum "we don't like duplicating work" when we can get it from the prior accountant. Send this client to the crapper, tell him the BS is on last year tax return (if it's a corporation), have his new accountant work for his money.

I totally agree....that is precisely what I did today even before reading your message.....

[Denne]

Thanks for all of your excellent ideas on how to handle someone that was competely harassing me and then eventually today threatening me. He called a minimum of ten times today. He left a message when I was on the other line that said he was either going to get everything he needed today or he would be in my office until he did! Not sure how he was going to get thru the locked door, but did trust that he was getting even more hostile. I as advised by others to call the police and report what was going on. While I was preparing some notes to call them I got another call in between and you guessed it....he called again! In those 10 or 15 minutes, I think may have received my letter in the mail. He called back to say he was going to get a check in the mail if I would fax him a bill. I faxed my letter....just in case he hadn't gotten his mail...the bill and the payroll taxes only. I put a cover sheet on the fax and told him he had the information he needed for his BS on his last years corporate return. I hope and pray he pays me....not really trusting it...but figured my safety was more important that he owed me at that point. I have no protection here and who knows how long the police would take to get here....... Our city has had lots of budget cuts with includes the police department. I also hope I NEVER hear from again. I think he has lost his mind and will most likely loose his business if he doesn't change his ways. I know he has lost my business, since I used his services too........

Thanks again for your advise and support. You guys are really such support....I can't even tell you how much it means to me.