BLACK BART

If only some kind soul would show up here and present me with just an ordinary "gray/either-way" ethical tax problem. That way I could at least entertain the possibility of solving it, acquiring, and retaining a steady client. Nicest folks for quick $75 "short forms" are late-50ish people, computer-shy (think Turbo-Tax is a washing machine), don't know anything about taxes and aren't likely to, maybe with grand-kids (raising them nowadays, of course) which will run the fee up to $95-$115. Anyway, a Prospective Client (in this category, but no kids) showed up Friday. Said he was single; gave me his docs (two W-2s, small pension, bank interest) which I plug in the computer and give him the refund amount. After a pleasant 20 minute chat I told him to come back in three day; he starts to leave, turns around, and says: PC: Oh, it don't really matter, but I guess I'm supposed to tell you - I sold a house last year. BB: Your house? Your personal residence? PC: Naw, my uncle died and left me his old, fallin'-down rent house. It wasn't worth but $10,000. BB: Oh, well, uh; we have to put that down. PC: No, no, it's okay. See, I let this guy have it for just what my uncle owed the bank on it. I put it on a land contract between him and me. BB: Well, we still have to.... PC: No, you don't understand. He cain't pay for it all at once, so I'm helpin' him out. He pays me exactly what the bank payment is ever' month and I turn around and give it to them until the $20,000 note gets paid off. I never get no money to keep and so I don't make nothin' off the deal. Failing to grasp this irrefutable logic exasperated him. He guessed he'd have to go somewhere else where they knew more about taxes. And out the door he went.

Same thing surprised me the other day. Thought "What the hey" is this? Happened just like rfassett's above and also just went away when I tried again a few seconds later. I wonder if it's got anything to do with your IP server intermittently connecting/disconnecting with ATX? I've had a couple of transmissions rejected with an error message saying my internet service was disconnecting during sending.

Sorry, I know that and didn't mean to imply you were, but yours was the only post to reference IRS (I need to stick a smilie on my quick pop-offs).

I wouldn't worry too much about IRS throwing together a stop-gap measure to nix this fix. Last year I was looking at IRS' TIGTA website and came across a comments section where people sent in suggestions to improve operations. An IRS employee replied to one that her idea was very good, but to be patient since the average time between submission, review, acceptance, and implementation was currently two years.

Line 9 If your client is eligible to claim the EIC for taxpayers without a qualifying child, answer “yes” to questions 9a and 9b. Guess I could have saved all that writin' by following the old saying: "READ THE INSTRUCTIONS". Thanks.

Me too - about $110 to $125. Exactly right. You can charge what you want. It's up to max $6,269 EIC (MFJ/ 3 kids/ earnings $14-24K). Add $3K CTC + all W/H back & you're pushing $10K. The used car dealers are rolling in dough.

Can't believe it. Same guy brings in another IRS letter about the above topic. To recap; he sent 1040 payment 10-15-16. IRS cashed check around 10-25-16. Nov. 8th they send bill saying "pay up" (same amount as the cashed check). Nov.16 I write back explaining it's already been paid (to speed things up). Dec. 6, he gets letter advising they need 45 days to resolve (this weighty matter of cashing a check). Today he brings in a 1-24-17 letter saying they need an additional 45 days to solve the mystery. Next will probably be a notice of garnishment.

That's another good 8867 question. Questions # 9a and 9b are asking if we explained tiebreaker rules and advised that kids must live with the taxpayer. Since they don't apply to the childless who qualify for EIC on their own, we are forced to logically say "No." And, again, it seems (to me) that the tone of the question is "Did you properly follow the EIC rules and ask or did you not?" While the question's absurd under the circumstances, you still kind of get the feeling you're "in the wrong" because of the way in which these questions are posed. Oh well; maybe there's somebody at IRS who will later exclaim "What idiot posed this question to all EIC recipients?"

Sorry, but I didn't notice this post (yours above) before I asked the same question (below)" What I meant by my above question ("...is saying "no" enough to make us dig some up and then list them to get along with IRS?") is that it seems if we answer "No" to the record retention question, then we are saying we are lax and won't comply with the rules (therefore putting us in danger of an IRS audit and prompting us to change the answer to "Yes" and go get some documents). I guess my real question is - is saying "No" to getting documents a "safe" option with IRS? Lion says (I think) to use "Yes" in either case (get documents or don't get documents). I'm not sure what's the "right way/best way."

That sounds good, but as to my above devil-may-care statement ("I'll take my chances and to...") regarding my disregarding CTC documents, I'm now not so sure that will fly with the IRS. If you answer "Yes" to 8867 question 5 ("Did you satisfy the record retention requirement), then it demands a list of the documents used (otherwise a "red warning" in the Check Return module keeps you from efiling until answered. Which is okay if you have documents. On the other hand, if don't have the documents and want to answer "No" to question 5, then a list of documents is NOT demanded in the Check Return module and you can efile with no problem. But the question is - how does this look to IRS (since I'm saying "No, I did not satisfy the record retention requirement)? In one sense, the 8867 seems to allow this by its "if any" statement right above the box 5 spot where you list the documents: it says "...list those documents, IF ANY, that you relied on." So, I don't want to say "yes, I retained documents" when I actually didn't, but is the saying "no" enough to make us dig some up and then list them to get along with IRS?

Well, first, I'm not going to make any notes about what the taxpayer says because that's generally a mixture of blather and non-helpful information. But for the documents I relied on, I list: (1) School Records (2) Medical Records (3) Social Services Records. What I mean by school records is that I ask them to get either a report card with the kid's name and address on it or (preferably) a printout of their "Registration Information" which is a paper that many schools keep listing all personal info: name, home address, date/place of birth, grade record, age, attendance dates, and every other thing you can think of. Even if they can't come up with anything else, I'll go with this alone. For medical records I ask for a doctor bill with the kid's name and address on it. Most don't have this, but occasionally they will. Also I'll ask for an insurance card; some have the address (which is what we're trying to prove), some don't have it, although I try to get a 1095-A/B/C (astonishing how many people say they never got one). By social services records I mean any kind of Social Security statements, county assistance papers, guardianship/custody decrees, any remotely semi-legal paper, court-issued or otherwise. Some of this stuff (except the school thing) doesn't have a home address, but I figure at least it shows I tried. All of the above is for EIC. If they're only getting CTC and I know the people, then I'll take my chances and the hell with it -- I'm not slogging through all that hogwash for it. If I don't know them, then I will.

Okay, thanks. I should've done a net-check before asking, but have to keep reminding myself that everything's online nowadays. That's a carryover outlook/habit/fault which was nurtured during the era of encyclopedias (every good middle-classer had to have a set). Just a note on this VC pilot program; here's a quote from an affected company: "...this helps IRS validate that the return is real, but don't worry - the IRS assures us that returns with omitted and incorrect W-2 verification will not delay the processing of a tax return." I understand the program's just beginning and the VC is omitted on some returns, but for those that do include a number doesn't it sort of...um...uh...nullify the program's whole purpose if incorrect numbers are disregarded?

I'm seeing a box that says "Verification Code" on some W-2s (but not all). It's located just under boxes 10-11 and it's four blocks of four numbers each separated by a dash. The ATX software has a place to enter this but not all the W-2s we've received have the code. This is new to me - didn't see it last year. We are entering it, but have sent efiles for clients whose W-2 had no such number and IRS did not kick it back. But anyway I'm wondering if it's related to ID theft; or if not, then what's the purpose? Any knowledgeable folks clued into this?

Guy comes in today with an alphabet return, A-B-C-D-E (but no F) and says "I usually do my own, but this time I sold a lot and bought two rent houses. It's just too complicated." BB: Whaddaya do? He: I sell insurance. BB: You can read insurance policies? He: Sure. BB: You can do taxes.

If you know what town the person lives in you can use "General Delivery" for the street address. Although the post office did away with the "General Delivery" system some years back, they will still send it to that town. I've done that; a few are sent back but mostly not and IRS has never (that I know of) billed any of my clients for the missing information. If the employee comes later in person to get a copy, no harm's done since only the 1040 address really matters. Also, one client lists his own address on the 1099 if he can't get theirs and those go through alright. The number's a different thing; no way around that, but I've never seen or heard of a fine or letter from IRS over a few missing numbers. Usually Social Security sends a letter about a year later asking for the number. I've written on the letter that the person would not furnish it, have no idea where he/she is, and sent it back. Generally that concludes the matter, but once I got an SS letter again the next year, wrote the same thing, sent it back and never heard anything else (letter/fine from anybody) again. While I've never seen IRS assess fines for two or three missing numbers or addresses, I have seen penalties assessed against clients for LATE FILING of 1099s

Well, shoot! After reading this thread I called a broke, poor-devil, one-man-band Schedule C'er who'll have to cough up $695 soon and advised an extension to see how this plays out. Says he never got one before, is scared to start (superstition rules - what can you say?), hold off 'til 4-15, and he will talk to the preacher about it ("Is it right?"). Sure hope divine intervention from that Troubled Waters, Healing Hands, Rising Sun, and Souls Harbor outfit can do him some good 'cause I cain't.

Same for me except less hold time. Usually I'll wait a few days figuring they'll be swamped right off, but decided what-the-hey and called first thing Monday morning. Most times it's hold one to two hours, but lucked out at 30 minutes. Describing my problem (couldn't export/import and error detail listed Boolean somethings-or-another and half a page of programming code) got me "I'll transfer you to a tech" and only 30 minutes later a great tech like yours came on, remoted the PC, talked/walked me through it for TWO hours (he had to experiment with several different methods). Anyway, everything's fixed and I count myself astoundingly lucky to have gotten through in only an hour to somebody who actually knew something. I've had ATX for years and love it - when it works it's great, but when it doesn't it's frequently very difficult to get service. I've only got two stand-alone PCs, but if I had Jack from Ohio's network and accompanying problems I'd probably have to consider either suicide or Drake. I hate switching software, but sure do envy those 3-ring support calls Drake clients rave about. I think the prices are similar and after ATX's "disaster season" some years back (John H. can tell you about that), I considered jumping ship. Only thing, Drake didn't have forms entry which I prefer. Somebody said they have it now but that it's an awkward toggle system back and forth with the regular data entry format. Guess I'll just wait for the next shoe to drop.

Well, some won't be missed, but many are just ordinary blue collar people in low-paying jobs who legitimately qualify for EIC and are not a problem. In the last several years I've lost a bunch of those "short forms" (it was quick, easy money) to TurboTax and the other tax-in-a-box outfits. It's not hard to see why: a 2/3 lower price and no "third-degree" 8867 grilling - just enter what you want, audit odds are low, but if overpaid (whether intentional or accidental) and checked, simply say "I did it the best I could - I don't know anything about taxes." And, as we know, IRS doesn't pick on "poor people" -- they prefer to gouge we unscrupulous tax preparers. Oh well, enough crying - I got to see a little payback recently. At the bank I ran into a lady who knows I'm in the business. Said she always files online through TurboTax, but (of course) asked me some questions anyway. "Using them again," I asked? "No," she said. "They're too high now; they still want $30 to $60. I'm switching to Credit Karma - theirs is free!" (So -- TT experiences "karma" through Credit Karma.)

That's good advice from a good "girl" (I know that term's not PC nowadays but I still like it for people I like - seems flattering to me). And thanks to you, Rita, and several others for "liking" some of my posts. I'd do the same for y'all if I could, but every time I punch that "Like this" button it switches to "unlike" and I don't wanna do that. Can you tell me the cure for that? It's awful inconvenient to be stuck in the previous non-computing century. Thanx for any assistance. I plan to start floggin' that church door myself some bright, sunny Sunday (but let's don't rush it - lapsed Baptist here). So far, the only progress I've made is to be kind to dogs and "err on the side of the angels" when my customers allow/deserve it. They say that "good works" argument is a thin reed to hang your religious hat on, but as Elvis told his last girlfriend when he gave her a big diamond ring but no matrimony - "We can only give what we have to give, Linda."

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/50-new-years-resolution-ideas-and-how-achieve-each-them.html Although most of mine come to naught; hope, like spring, springs eternal. So....I surfed part-way through the above list before becoming overwhelmed by the enormity of these tasks (this positive stuff is tough). I consulted a friend who said he's resolved to make no more resolutions in order to avoid disappointment in himself, but that seemed to be....hmmm...not quite fair (or something). Well, to get to it, let's see - what's possible in that list? EXERCISE! That's got to be a good one -- two months ago the doc told me to: (a) stop using my treadmill for a coat-hanger and (b) walk on it 30 minutes a day. I told him that's impossible and he cut his recommendation to 15 minutes (reminds me of that "Goodfellas" movie joke: doc gives a guy six months to live; guy says he can't pay the bill; doc gives him another six months). But I digress - what about 5 minutes? Yeah I know that's pitiful, but it's doable. I'll place the walker in front of the TV, enable closed captions (the treadmill motor's loud), and tune in an action movie with lots of swordfighting and stuff (a treadmill is extremely boring). Next doctor's visit I'll tell him I'm phasing the program in um...uh...well...gradually. Okay, let's formulate plan B (just in case). I noticed "BE POLITE" in the list. That doesn't sound too daunting and I'm mostly polite anyway (could probably pull that one off 99%). Still, being in the tax prep business; shouldn't we be allowed a little leeway? "Cut us some slack" as they say, since we must resist the occasional urge to lunge across the desk and strangle that (pick one: crazy/stupid/arrogant) ignoramus. Enough about my lofty goals. What's YOUR resolution?

That's also the way I understood it.

We occasionally have the same problem (except for water) and sometimes it's out for a week or more. We've used portable generators from Lowe's for the computers, but everything else is back to pioneer days and, as you say, we're wearing out faster than the machinery. If I may, can I ask where do you get a whole house generator (local or national company?) and about how much does the thing cost (plus installation-varies according to locale I suppose). Never mind if you'd rather not say, but thanks anyway. P.S. Has anybody else here noticed that once your local utility office consolidates, closes down, and moves off; then service quality declines rapidly. Our suppliers moved three states away and, while assuring us service would be the same or even better, things went straight downhill. At one time I could have a serviceman here in an hour; now it's either a clueless clerk who wants to know what state I'm located in, or a recording saying all will be fixed in X days (and, implicitly, "stop bothering us").

Gosh, I dunno. These situations are such personal things (between them and their quirks and us and ours) that it's hard to generalize. I guess the question is: Would you take him back? Under the circumstances, I don't think I'd do anything but wait and see if he phones or comes in to talk in person. If he apologizes and you're willing to do the work, then all's okay - if still hostile then I'd tell him it's his fault, that I notified him monthly and he ignored it, so I'm not doing his taxes anymore. This works - I did it once, but the downside was he gave me a cussin' goin' out the door which I ignored (he was quite large). Besides, it's against the law to shoot anybody not moving toward you although, just in case, I keep a .38 in the desk (you never know). Hmm, come to think of it, that scenario doesn't need to be repeated -- probably would just go smoother following Rita's suggestion (let it blow over).

I don't think it's that easy to get out of them. The catch is that buyers sign contracts agreeing to pay a monthly "maintenance fee" for an unlimited period of time. Apparently it can go on for years. People can't get out of the contract and the TS company sues, turns it over to collection agencies, and ruins their credit. I almost got into one several years ago - a mailing offered some cash and free days in a Branson hotel to attend an "information seminar." I thought it would be a short film in a group setting. Uh-uh. A dozen salesmen in spiffy sharkskin (appropriate attire) suits appeared and one told the receptionist, "Don't send me any more farmers from Iowa" (he apparently wanted high-rollers only). They took couples to separate rooms and began a high-pressure (fire-hose strength) spiel beginning with a $20K deal that reduced in $2K increments all the way down the keyboard to $900 wherein we and another couple jointly bought a one-week stay at a swanky place there in town. Luckily, that was the only thing for sale that didn't involve a TS contract with maintenance fees. Actually they made the TS sound so good that I wanted to buy one, but was saved from this lunacy by my wary wife who said "$10,000? Are you nuts?" Around town later we saw an office with a huge sign advertising: "CAN'T GET OUT OF YOUR TIMESHARE? WE CAN HELP!" According to the article below many of those companies are crooks too and there are lots of "J.K.Harris" type operations scamming those who have already been scammed once by the TS guys. http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/89938.aspx

This morning in the McDonald's drive-through lane, my wife handed money to the cashier who said "No. Keep it. The person in front of you paid your bill." Touched, she said "I guess some people still have the Christmas spirit. Okay, take this anyway; I'm paying for the people behind me." She then pulled up beside the car in front that was waiting for an order to be brought out, rolled the window down, and called out "Thank you!" The lady smiled broadly and replied "Merry Christmas!"