JohnH

Great news KC. Will keep praying for your continued recovery and return to full-out belly-laughing mode.

Tom: If you're going to do that, you may as well just use the IRS web site. At least you won't have to worry about it crashing. I've never known a pdf web fill-in form to malfunction. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf

I classify this in the "walking and chewing gum at the same time" category. Some people get it, some people don't. (or won't)

And we all make voluntary donations to help defray the cost of the forum. That's what the "Donations" button is up there to accomplish.

Just curious. You say you have 220 returns backed up on the shelf and you're waiting for the conversion. Are NONE of those 220 returns simple enough for you to populate the return manually and complete them? Seems like that would be more productive than just waiting around. Plus you'd begin to get familiar with the look and feel of the new software - one step closer to software transparency.

---> If it smells funny, it's usually bad......CYA <--- We know what a correct answer is, or we know the only possible range of correct answers, for 90% of the questions we ask. So we have the advantage of consciously or subconsciously detecting visual clues when a person answers truthfully. That's one of the most important pieces of information you can gain about a person. As you observe how they behave when they're being truthful, your intuition will be more likely to warn you when they're being devious, even if you aren't consciously aware of the reason at times. It doesn't take long in this business to begin picking up on subtle clues. Sometimes it's a client who won't make eye contact at important points in the conversation. Or we ask them a simple question and they begin asking us questions in response, rather than give a direct truthful answer. Sometimes it's the way they sit in their chair or maybe how their eyebrows move. How they hold their shoulders or what they do with their hands. Hundreds of possibilities. I'm convinced that I've made a few mistakes when I followed my intuition, so I know it isn't perfect. But I know that virtually every time I failed to follow it, I later regretted that decision. The facts alone are enough to send this client packing, whether you do it diplomatically or undiplomatically. But it's clear you also feel uneasy for reasons you haven't stated or you may not even be aware of. Your intuition is usually more than just a "hunch". You should follow it.

Another good choice is Tax-Print. I just discovered it this year while stalling to see which direction ATX was headed. It cost $39 also, but that includes ability to laser print the W-2's and 1099's. It prints all the allowable forms in black & white, plus it will drop the data onto pre-printed red forms for the 1099 Copy A and 1096. Another very nice feature is that it prints the Uni-Form layout for W-2's, which is always my preference. It has a very simple "Import" function from Excel, so you have all the control you need. They allow you to download and try it for free, then pay to remove a watermark if you like it. So I entered & printed a couple of my simple clients and inspected the output before putting any money into it. When I paid, it removed the watermark from the test entries and I was doing billable work within 10 minutes. The program has limited reporting capabilities and its "Find" feature doesn't work well, but since you can pair it with Excel you can easily overcome that limitation. http://www.tax-print.com/

Yeah, that low-intensity break-even return would become very interesting if her actual income were closer to $20 - $30K.

By suggesting the 1099-Misc, you're trying to forge a compromise that has more downside potential for you than upside. She has already all but told you she's inclined to game the system. Your suggestion could be interpreted as a recommendation on how to make it work. The bartender probably isn't dumb enough to actually cooperate, but what if he did? Do you really want to be seen in hindsight as a participant if it blows up?

I'll bet she can refine that $22K estimate right down to the penny if the preparer will just let her see the screen while preparing the return.

She gave you her business card. You should return the favor by giving her HRB's business card.

At the rate he's going, he will be eligible for EIC in another year or two. No sense giving him a lecture, especially since he didn't ask. Of course, the only thing worse than irresponsible clients are irresponsible clients who ask for advice. You know you're wasting your breath.

You could check box 5 on Form 8948 and attach it to the paper return. Maybe enter "1040" for the form number. At the moment you'd be telling the truth. Or better, check box 6c and enter an explanation that the software has issues which are unresolvable at your location after repeated attempts to rectify the problem (or something along those lines.)

I'm not focusing exclusively on ATX, although they are a big part of the question since this is primarily an ATX forum. But I think this question reaches a little farther than a single vendor. Part of my reason for starting this thread is thinking about the marketing angle and how it might affect those who do renew early. My guess is that many software providers may be shocked at the fall-off in early renewers next year. They won't really know if this is due to committed customers simply delaying, or the more serious issue of prior customers bolting to other vendors. (they will have anecdotal info from their sales dept, but smart sales departments who find themselves in this position always paint the worst possible picture for management). Consequently, the marketing people will be inclined to ramp up the discount or sweeten the deal in order to induce more people to sign up. So if you plan to renew early next time around, it might be wise to pass up the first offer and see if your vendor ups the ante in some meaningful way. Personally I still think it's a bad idea, but if I were going to opt for the early sign-up I'd be inclined to wait out the first round.

I'm just curious how many on this forum have changed their attitudes about prepaying for tax software. And I'm curious about what effect this might have on the software vendors' marketing efforts & business model as well. Having dealt with 4-5 software vendors over the past 10-15 years, I've always refused to take everybody's prepayment discount. I delay purchasing until the product is ready (or close to being so). The subject comes up on this forum and others from time-to-time, and I've always maintained that it isn't worth saving what's essentially the price of 1 or 2 tax returns in exchange for being locked into an unproven product. It's unwise business practice, especially for the small shops who can't economically justify signing up for a secondary vendor. (The big shops have no excuse as far as I'm concerned) Whatever else happens during the remainder of this tax season with whomever you have chosen as your vendor, would anybody on this forum seriously consider being tethered to ANY vendor this coming Aug-Sep for the upcoming year?

Would that be classified as a Vaticinal Settlement?

So the bottom line is that this is another ATX issue after all.

Eric: Do you happen to know anyone who might be good at tax preparation whom you could get to look it over for you? Seriously, I'd be happy to review it for you, as would most of us on this forum. On a confidential basis, of course. Ignore our whining about people asking us to check their work - especially given all that you do for us on this forum, those types of compaints don't apply in your case.

Do you think that maybe Drake at least bought a couple of off-the-shelf computers and are testing their new software on them? Sort of the way lots of small practitioners have to operate? Sometimes its really smart to emulate how your customers are actually going to use (and misuse) your product before you take their money. I suspect Drake is wise enough to do that because I have lots of confidence in their ability to idemtify and service their target market. What a novel concept.

And that is a hard thing for a tax software company to figure out why?

Don't tell them. If they call to say they read something about the change in the newspaper, just say "It doesn't apply to you". What you really mean is, "it doesn't apply to problem clients".

When someone asks me for an estimate I tell them it will take me as long to enter their information for the estimate as it would take to prepare the return. The only thing left is to just push the "print" button. So I'll have to charge them full price. I give the same answer to someone who wants me to "grade their paper" on a self-prepared return Funny, I don't get many questions of that type since I adopted that response. =============================================================== Smart move Deb. There are people out there who will waste your time and drain your energy. May as well identify them early and send them on their way. Then you can spend productive time on work for your quality clients.

Very true. But if I were a food service equipment salesman who walked into a restaurant and noticed their kitchen was in flames, I would hand them my business card on my way back out the door.

Since I spend the other part of my business life as a sales rep, I'm generally interested in the sales & marketing side of any company I do business with. Sales reps tend to exaggerate for a host of reasons. But if those numbers are anywhere near accurate, there could be a "critical mass" issue looming here. Doesn't matter to me personally because I've already made my decision, but I'm certainly going to keep watching - mainly out of curiosity.

I haven't heard about it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were the end game here. But I doubt that it will be free...