JohnH

All of the above answers illustrate yet again the pitfalls of preparing returns claiming EIC. Other than the occasional slam dunk, it's a specialized field of tax preparation. We are called upon to make judgement calls having nothing to do with our role as tax preparers - except for the fact that IRS is forcing those who prepare these particular type of returns to perform a function better left to Social Services professionals. It's beyond ridiculous. You original post said you are trying to send the client away by raising his fees in hopes he will leave. Why not be honest with him and tell him right now you won't prepare the return? Maybe give him a quick estimate so he can know what to expect, which might be a good incentive for him to get on to the next preparer. Hopefully he will understand your reasoning and appreciate your honesty. If so, then you've enhanced a friendship. If he doesn't understand, then you will know he's so self-focused that he doesn't care about the risks you're taking on just as long as he gets his check, in which case you don't need his business anyhow.

You probably can't increase your rate enough to make him go away and/or to make it worth your while. And the situation doesn't seem to pass the smell test. Maybe you just need to level with him. Over the past few years I've found it best to be honest with people claiming EIC who ask me to prepare their returns. I just tell them that I'm not questioning their veracity, but the huge penalties are something I'm not willing to risk. I tell them I've come to consider returns claiming EIC to be a special class of return with its own complexities. Not mathematical complexities - regulatory complexities. So they should go to JH or HRB because those companies have the deep pockets to absorb penalties better than I do.

You have my sympathy - I really mean that. My practice is small and I'm in the process of downsizing, so I can wait this out. But for somene in your situation this has to be maddening. You are absolutely right about conversions - I've done several conversions over the years and every one of them had its share of difficulties & unexpected data drops. I expect that whatever happens this season, you surely must already be thinking about how to handle things next year.

I haven't asked. But I will know in the next couple of days. I'm still willing to wait another week or so for a usable product from ATX, but I'm keeping my powder dry.

Drake I'm still holding out to see what happens with ATX. I bought a stand-alone W-2 & 1099 program just to get that task done while still waiting to see if ATX gets their act together. That's $40 I shouldn't have needed to spend, but good insurance, IMO. But if ATX isn't ready to roll by the end of Jan, I'll switch to Drake. It's an excellent alternative to ATX.

The court correctly drew a distinction between PREPARING a return and PRACTICING before the IRS. If there's an appeal, the next step should be a proper distinction between PREPARING a return and FILING a return. It's a distinction with a difference.

This has already been posted on a new thread, but it might ignite a firestorm on this one... http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TAX_PREP_LAWSUIT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-18-18-32-55

Try this link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TAX_PREP_LAWSUIT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-18-18-32-55 This development has the potential to cause some of our board participants to go ballistic.

Don't forget internet forms. If it happens that you need a form which isn't available in last year's MAX program and you can't yet get to it in the current year, it may be available online. Many states have fillable pdf's available for their local forms. Sometimes you can't save the data or the forms won't calculate, but at least you have something you can use in a pinch to get the report out the door.

Purrfect reply.

Your respect for IRS or lack thereof is irrelevant. I share some of your opinions about them. But the fact remains that no matter what your opinion of them may be, you'll fall in line or be out of business. You're already their data entry clerk, you've been forced to not only prepare the return but also to accept responsbility for timely filing, and you're already making decisions about such things as EIC while looking over your shoulder, so it's just a matter of time until you're their de facto auditor. I'm not trying to convince you - future Circular 230 changes will do that job. I can't help it if you insist on burying your head in the sand just because you don't like what I say. .

And you are missing the point. Stop looking at individual trees and focus on the forest fire. Improving the quality of the returns depends upon forcing you to become a defacto auditor, not making their RTRP administrative function work perfectly. All they need to do is convince you they will destroy your livelihood if you don't go along. It's coming. Let's save this thread a couple of years and then revisit who is fantasizing and who has their head in the sand.

But after the OIH deduction is simplified, will they still be able to deduct food and vet bills for their "security cat" who guards their inventory?

I don't think the RTRP program is bull at all. They just overreached a little at the outset in getting it up and running. You haven't yet seen the end result although they are telegraphing plenty of signs. Once the bugs are worked out and it's streamlined a little more, you will begin to get instructions on exactly how you are expected to audit the client's return as a part of the filing process. Of course, you can choose not to do the government's work for them, under pain of severe financial penalties and loss of the RTRP status & your livelihood. IRS knows you can't just drop a frog into boiling water - you just gradually turn the heat up until he's cooked.

Be assured I know how you feel. I've felt that way myself before... and so on and so on .... :)

"Thank you for your concerns. Be assured that we make every effort to respond to all customer requests promptly with the suggestion that you engage other levels of our bureacuracy. We have many levels to enable you to express your feelings. We are always aware of how important your feelings are. You have a right to express your feelings and we try extra hard to accomodate your feelings. We know how you feel - we've felt that way ourselves. Remember that we are all about feeling. We concentrate on feeling even more than caring. What does that mean, you ask? Well, we really don't care, but sometimes we feel bad about not caring."

You're right - it varies by area of the country and client particulars.

I disagree with you paralegal friend. I think most people don't pay any attention to legalese. They look at it, eyes glaze over, then they look at you and ask "what does this say?" You respond, "I have no idea when you're going to get your refund, but it definitely will be long after Jan 30." May as well just say that in writing to begin with. Also, I think we tend to box ourselves in when we write in too much detail. It forces us to adhere to rigid policies or puts us in the position of having to explain why the policy doesn't apply in a particular situation. And if we have a client sign something they don't understand and then trot it out when they have questions, it generally upsets them. It doesn't bring clarity - rather it creates distance and decreases trust. Just my 2 cents worth. Your mileage may vary. Same issue with the amended returns. I didn't say you shouldn't CHARGE $50 when the situation warrants it - I was just suggesting that you preserve some flexibility for yourself by not promising to only charge that amount.

Thanks for the reminder. I use MyFico weekly credit monitoring for my wife and myself, but that's a great suggestion.

Aha! So THAT explains why my doctor ordered arthoscopic knee surgery after my gall bladder attack!

Comprehensive, but how about a simple note attached to their copy which says "IRS has announced that returns cannot be filed before Jan 30, and refunds will be mailed sometime after that date.The IRS might also change the date. I can't predict what other changes they may make in the coming weeks." Only $50 for an amended return? I'd say "There will be an additional fee for any amended returns, based on the amount of work involved."

This might be a good time for a reminder to click the "DONATIONS" button and show Eric we appreciate his hard work. The discussion on this thread served that purpose for me, and I just finished the task.

Sure, as long as the "best" and "worst" answer scores aren't tied to our names.

Scam email. Why didn't I think of that? I could have made a fortune off that lost passport but I missed my opportunity !

Funny that carbon paper is being discussed here, because I have a story from this week. My wife misplaced her passport while we were in India, so this past Monday we had to jump through lots of hoops at the US consulate and Indian immigration to get back home. It was an all-day ordeal, but not without its moments of humor. The last stop was Indian immigration. After we paid our fees, the official filled out a receipt form which had a piece of carbon paper between the top sheet and second sheet. He had my wife sign the form with the carbon still in place. Then he took the original and PLACED IT IN THE COPY MACHINE beside his desk. He then had her sign the photocopy even though she had already signed the original. I now wish I had asked for the piece of carbon paper as a souvenir of the entire ordeal.