NT RTRP... Is it Bull???

[taxguy057]

I just wanted to vent for a few about all the crap I've been seeing on TV as far as tax preparation this year.... Now here the IRS has toughened up on all the things we have to do in order to even file tax returns for a profit. All the CE classes and registration with them and paying a fee to keep PTIN numbers plus the up coming RTRP Exams which some have taken and the rest of us a must by end of year. Yet and still I sat there and watched a commercial from Turbo Tax where you can take a snapshot of your W2 info etc.. and send via text to them and they file your return over the phone.... REALLY!!??? So here I'm thinking all this new regs we are being held responsible to follow which is suppose to make us the leading tax pros and take us into the 2015 100% e-file mandate IRS is wanting and now people can just "text-a return!!" Is it just me or is all this new IRS "Malarky" (sp) really worth anything when taxpayers have so many other options, some free and of course less expensive than us to file their returns. I just feel we the small business will and are now slowly being pushed out!! Just wanted you guys take on all that has transpired over past couple years with IRS and tax prep services like ours!!

Thanks for taking time to read my bull today!!! lol! Happy Filing this season!!!

TG

[Jack from Ohio]

The RTRP program (I have complied with CPE and the test) is the biggest joke since Y2K. It is nothing but a money grab by the IRS.

All the expense and time I spent complying has only given me one thing I did not already have....

The ability to put RTRP after my name.

No additional privileges with the IRS for my clients above being unregistered. Now I see where the IRS relented and did NOT ENFORCE the CPE requirements for 2012. I also know that people who did not renew until after Dec. 31, 2012 were not even questioned about being late. (Two people in my office...) None of these steps will accomplish any of the state purpose which is "To ensure that people preparing paid returns are knowledgable and qualified to prepare accurate returns and to reduce the filing of fraudulent returns."

The whole program is Male Bovine Scat!!

[Guest Taxed]

Boys instead of pulling your hair out, just have a comeback for dealing with TT or HRB who say they can do tax returns without W2. You can too by using the Dec. summary stub what any one of us can't do is e-file them now. Read the fine print in those ads, they say they start the process, so can you!

[Jack from Ohio]

I do not want the clients that want returns "done" with only their W-2. I get new clients every year where people have messed up returns by the big box stores and the "do it yourself" tax programs. I make good money correcting their errors.

If a current client wants to switch and go to those places or software, I wish them good luck and say... "You'll be back." No misses yet!! When they do come back the following year, their pricing goes up.

I have no appointments before Feb. 1, every year for exactly the same reasons. I have had a 10% annual increase in my personal clientele each year for the past 5 years, and looks like a 20% increase already for 2012 filing season.

TT & HRB are good for my business!!

[JohnH]

I don't think the RTRP program is bull at all. They just overreached a little at the outset in getting it up and running. You haven't yet seen the end result although they are telegraphing plenty of signs. Once the bugs are worked out and it's streamlined a little more, you will begin to get instructions on exactly how you are expected to audit the client's return as a part of the filing process. Of course, you can choose not to do the government's work for them, under pain of severe financial penalties and loss of the RTRP status & your livelihood.

IRS knows you can't just drop a frog into boiling water - you just gradually turn the heat up until he's cooked.

[Jack from Ohio]

Your expectations of the IRS are fantasy. The IRS cannot even correctly credit me the CPE credits I earned at THEIR Nationwide Forum in Chicago in August.

Now answer me how all these changes are going to improve the quality of tax returns?

[JohnH]

And you are missing the point. Stop looking at individual trees and focus on the forest fire.

Improving the quality of the returns depends upon forcing you to become a defacto auditor, not making their RTRP administrative function work perfectly. All they need to do is convince you they will destroy your livelihood if you don't go along. It's coming. Let's save this thread a couple of years and then revisit who is fantasizing and who has their head in the sand.

[Jack from Ohio]

And you are missing the point. Stop looking at individual trees and focus on the forest fire.

Improving the quality of the returns depends upon forcing you to become a defacto auditor, not making their RTRP administrative function work perfectly. All they need to do is convince you they will destroy your livelihood if you don't go along. It's coming. Let's save this thread a couple of years and then revisit who is fantasizing and who has their head in the sand.

Did you believe the Y2K theory as well? When I have to school an auditor that state refunds are not counted as income because the taxpayer took standard deduction last year, my respect for the abilities of the IRS takes a severe nosedive. (True story)

[Janitor Bob]

I will admit that forcing me to study for an exam (even though studying was clearly NOT necessary in order to pass) and forcing me to complete CE did actually improve my tax prep skills and familiarized me with some areas that I had little or no prior experience. So for all of the other gripes about the RTRP program.....and there are many valid ones....I will give IRS credit for this...they forced me to become a little better at my job.

[jainen]

>>take a snapshot of your W2<<

I routinely prepare returns with copies sent by fax or email. Gee, some companies ONLY issue a pdf W-2.

>>they file your return over the phone<<

I do that, too, especially for clients in another city or state. A simple return with a single W-2 doesn't really require an organizer, just an interview from a worksheet. I have clients I haven't seen in years, and once I had a client I never did see.

[taxguy057]

Oh I'm def on point with all that has been said. That's why I started this thread to get a feel for every ones take on it. I agree it makes us better as a preparer but it still doesn't make me personally feel like a exclusive preparer after all that has to be done. I feel more like mouse in the maze bumping into walls just to get to the other end and Big Brother standing over top watching! Lol!

[Guest Taxed]

I think the RTRP will squeeze out many individuals wo do tax returns, because it is easy money for them without any consequences. Last year i amended the return of a taxpayer whose snow plow guy's GF did a return for 50 bucks. It was all wrong and we figured out that this girl could not even add correctly.

[taxguy057]

I think the RTRP will squeeze out many individuals wo do tax returns, because it is easy money for them without any consequences. Last year i amended the return of a taxpayer whose snow plow guy's GF did a return for 50 bucks. It was all wrong and we figured out that this girl could not even add correctly.

Now I feel special!! Lol!

[JohnH]

Did you believe the Y2K theory as well? When I have to school an auditor that state refunds are not counted as income because the taxpayer took standard deduction last year, my respect for the abilities of the IRS takes a severe nosedive. (True story)

Your respect for IRS or lack thereof is irrelevant. I share some of your opinions about them. But the fact remains that no matter what your opinion of them may be, you'll fall in line or be out of business. You're already their data entry clerk, you've been forced to not only prepare the return but also to accept responsbility for timely filing, and you're already making decisions about such things as EIC while looking over your shoulder, so it's just a matter of time until you're their de facto auditor. I'm not trying to convince you - future Circular 230 changes will do that job. I can't help it if you insist on burying your head in the sand just because you don't like what I say. .

[Jack from Ohio]

Your respect for IRS or lack thereof is irrelevant. I share some of your opinions about them. But the fact remains that no matter what your opinion of them may be, you'll fall in line or be out of business. You're already their data entry clerk, you've been forced to not only prepare the return but also to accept responsbility for timely filing, and you're already making decisions about such things as EIC while looking over your shoulder, so it's just a matter of time until you're their de facto auditor. I'm not trying to convince you - future Circular 230 changes will do that job. I can't help it if you insist on burying your head in the sand just because you don't like what I say. .

I have taken over 40 hours of training each year for the past 5 years to stay up to date and informed. Now you see, I am one test away from becoming an E.A., which WILL give me additional privileges with the IRS.

The RTRP test was a first grade test compared to the E.A. exams.

I was comforming to Circular 230 several years before RTRP requiring me to, because it is the ethical and good business thing to do. I am offended by the requirement to spend all the money for the extra hoops for something I have already been doing for years and have nothing to show for it but the ability to add 4 letters after my name. Now I see that the IRS has rescinded the CPE requirement for 2012. They were adamant about not changing any deadlines. As such, the IRS preparer compliance division is a joke.

I do not fear an audit of my clients or my office due to the things I just related. I do not fear the IRS, I have come to loathe the rulemaking department of said agency.

[Lloyd Hudson]

Where did you see that the CE requirement for 2012 was rescinded?All i have seen is that you could finish the 15 hrs in 2013 as well as get your hrs for 2013.

[taxxcpa]

It may be that the IRS may be more interested in the PTIN requirement than anything else to enable them to implement a new policy of assuming there are no crooked taxpayers, ONLY CROOKED TAX PREPARERS.

With the PTIN and the RTPR requirement, the IRS now has more information to use in selecting preparers to be audited.

[Guest Taxed]

I support the RTRP program and the requirement to get CE because it will flush out all those unqualified people who do it as a hobby and mess up the returns. It gives us Tax Preparers a bad reputation because of some stupid or crooked people. Already in my area I am getting referrals from 2 tax preparers that decided not to renew their PTIN for 2013 season.

[Jack from Ohio]

I support the RTRP program and the requirement to get CE because it will flush out all those unqualified people who do it as a hobby and mess up the returns. It gives us Tax Preparers a bad reputation because of some stupid or crooked people. Already in my area I am getting referrals from 2 tax preparers that decided not to renew their PTIN for 2013 season.

The rules will not stop the unqualified people from doing returns. They simply mark it as self-prepared. Where, in all the new regulations, is the regulation that will prevent that? They grab a copy of Turbo-Tax and prepare as many as they want.

I know several very qualified and experienced tax preparers that are giving up the practice because they do not want to go through all the new regulations. Their practice is not large enough to be able to absorb all the extra expense, or make the drastic changes needed to comply with Circular 230.

[Jack from Ohio]

Where did you see that the CE requirement for 2012 was rescinded?All i have seen is that you could finish the 15 hrs in 2013 as well as get your hrs for 2013.

What is the difference? All year long, the IRS stated that you had to have 15 CPE's in order to renew your PTIN. Without the CPE's (and the only proof they requried was checking a box that said you have them) you were not supposed to be able to renew.

I predict the Dec. 31, 2013 "deadline" for taking the RTRP test will also be moved or removed.

[Guest Taxed]

Jack you know better than that. If a Tax Preparer accepts payment and prepares a return "Self Prepared" and the return is under audit, God help that person because IRS will come down on them like a ton of bricks! I have seen many Turbo Tax Self Prepared returns in my life but with the new IRS RTRP Registry the smart shoppers will be able to verify, and flush out those "fly by night" preparers.

I got my 15 CE for 2012. I am sure there will be talks to extend the RTRP test if Prometric can't schedule all those wo are still trying to sign up by the end of the year. That is normal and I would not worry about so early. Let's see what happens with test scheduling.

[Jack from Ohio]

Jack you know better than that. If a Tax Preparer accepts payment and prepares a return "Self Prepared" and the return is under audit, God help that person because IRS will come down on them like a ton of bricks! I have seen many Turbo Tax Self Prepared returns in my life but with the new IRS RTRP Registry the smart shoppers will be able to verify, and flush out those "fly by night" preparers.

I got my 15 CE for 2012. I am sure there will be talks to extend the RTRP test if Prometric can't schedule all those wo are still trying to sign up by the end of the year. That is normal and I would not worry about so early. Let's see what happens with test scheduling.

When only 1% of returns total get audited? Reality check here. Last year 200+ returns filed from the same house with refunds going into the same bank account and the IRS has not caught the criminal?? The "smart and ethical" taxpayers already know how to find a competent preparer. It is the huge number of taxpayers that only want "cheap" that go to the "fly by night" preparers. This will not change.

The testing was supposed to be mandatory by Dec. 31, 2012. There has been plenty of time for those that wish to comply. If a deadline constantly gets moved, it is no longer a deadline.

The whole RTRP process is a huge joke on the taxpayers, and a money grab for the IRS from the law abiding and ethical preparers.

[Guest Taxed]

Not to pick a fight with you but I will NOT put "self prepared" on any return if I accepted even a $1 fee. Hell I must do over 50/ 60 free returns (1040EZ) for my client's kids working at McDonald to get their refunds back, and i put my PTIN on the returns.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of the RTRP program.

If someone believes in the 1% audit rate and you want to take a chance, you must buy Powerball every time!

[jainen]

>>a money grab for the IRS<<

The RTRP program, like any other government program, undoubtedly costs more than it brings in. The point is not revenue but control. For continuing education IRS wants us reading quick summaries of Pub 17 instead of Tax Court cases. Check! They want professional service to be more expensive so fewer taxpayers will use us. Check! They want the public worrying about credentials instead of taxation. Check! They want us arguing with each other instead of them. Check!

With all due respect, Jack, to understand the IRS you have to think like a bureaucrat.

[mcb39]

Well, there has to be some pride of self in having complied regardless of what others do. I did receive my PTIN before my CE in Novemeber, but I have a certificate to prove it and have no doubt that the IRS could ask to see it at any time. It doesn't matter to me whether they do or not. I have done CE for as many years as it was available to me and got the 15 credits even when they weren't required. Knowledge gained cannot be taken away from me.