David W Ristau CPA Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I've deleted my post from this thread since it doesn't seem to fit definition of community input regarding ATX and CCH handling of a CCH and that forum moderators using Drake software pre-empt shared ATX user experiences on a community board titled ATX Community. I've left the generic wording for ACA questions ATX users may find helpful in the void ATX leaves in its own 2014 organizer. Wording is my modification of a Drake organizer page given to all attendees at a Chris Bird forms update seminar I attended yesterday. Here is organizer wording that you can format yourself as needed: Health Care Coverage Questionnaire Name: SSN: List by name and SSN as shown on tax return or member of your household and answer YES or NO for each person: YES NO Had health care Coverage: YES NO For the entire year. YES NO For part of the year (Less than 12 months) And which month(s) YES NO healthcare coverage at all YES NO Did anyone besides taxpayer or spouse pay for health care coverage for anyone listed above? YES NO Did you pay for health care coverage for anyone not listed above? If you had coverage for any part of the year: Where was the policy obtained? Employer / Medicare / Medicaid / Marketplace(Exchange) / Other If you didn't have coverage part or all of the year: Answer YES if it applies to any member of the household YES NO Was your previous insurance policy cancelled in 2014? YES NO Do you have an Exemption from the Marketplace (also called the Exchange)? YES NO Was coverage offered by taxpayer's or spouse's employer? YES NO Are you a member of a federally-recognized Indian tribe? YES NO Are you eligible for services through an Indian health care provider? YES NO Are you a member of a health care sharing ministry? YES NO Did you live in the United States the entire year? YES NO Are you enrolled in TRICARE? YES NO Did you apply for CHIP coverage? YES NO Do any of the following apply to you? Do NOT indicate which one. Became homeless Evicted in the past six months, or facing eviction or foreclosure Received a shut-off notice from a utility company Recently experienced domestic violence Recently experienced the death of a close family member Recently experienced a fire, flood, or other natural or human-caused disaster that resulted in substantial damage to your property Filed for bankruptcy in the last six months Incurred unreimbursed medical expenses in the last 24 months that resulted in substantial debt Experienced unexpected increases in essential expenses due to caring for an ill, disabled, or aging family member Edited January 11, 2015 by David Ristau CPA deleted the pdf attachment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Have you received any official response? Don't you think CCHSFS is fully aware of their competitors' products? Have you considered another vendor or running dual programs? Hmmm, maybe that other one you mentioned would handle the ACA input more easily. I've deleted your pdf because it's not fair to those of us that have paid for the program for you to share the Drake organizer (copyrighted) on here publicly for anyone to download and use. Presumably, those pages were included in a seminar that you paid to attend, and as far as I know, that organizer isn't available freely on the internet. I'm not saying this just because I've paid for Drake, I'd be saying that about any vendor's proprietary product. If you'd used those organizer pages to then customize your own questionnaire, I'd feel differently about you sharing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Following is a copy of my post on the CCH ATX community board yesterday regarding ACA input sheets in the ATX 2014 organizer. It also includes a reference to random added blank pages and unwanted mailing slips. At the end of this post I've also included a 2 page PDF I created from scanned Drake 2014 organizer pages included in a Chris Bird forms update seminar I attended yesterday. "I have started to review the ACA forms 8965 and 8962 with an eye on what clients need to provide as part of the preparation process. In the organizer sent out by ATX I find only 2 one sentence questions in the "Basic Information" section of the organizer and nothing in the organizer for clients to furnish the information that's needed to complete 8965 and 8962 forms. Nothing except 2 general sentences. Really ATX? One of the most comprehensive and significant impact on taxpayers tax law and you use 2 sentences as the "organizer" input? I suggest ATX takes a big look real fast at what Drake software included in their organizer for 2014 ACA inputs. A full page and 1/3 separate page with detailed questions for taxpayers to answer and a list of required documents needed to complete the forms and tax return. Did ATX omit a real organizer page due to profit motive by CCH to buy the ACA software package rather than put a full page such as the one Drake provided to their preparer software customers? I'm very, very disappointed with the handling of ACA in the organizer. I will be posting a follow-up here for fellow preparers to access and download to add to the incomplete organizer from ATX. Extra blank pages, mail slip that won't go away and stay away and missing ACA client organizer data sheet. That's 3 strikes, ATX............. David W. Ristau CPA" My PDF of Drake's ACA 2014 organizer references: Wasting your time. CCH does not pay attention to customer input. You should buy Drake and stop complaining. CCH/ATX was not designed to babysit your tax practice. If the organizer does not meet your needs, buy Drake or make your own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Following is a copy of my post on the CCH ATX community board yesterday regarding ACA input sheets in the ATX 2014 organizer. ........ ...and so on.... Here is organizer wording that you can format yourself as needed: Health Care Coverage Questionnaire Name: SSN: List by name and SSN as shown on tax return or member of your household and answer YES or NO for each person: YES NO Had health care Coverage: YES NO For the entire year. YES NO For part of the year (Less than 12 months) And which month(s) YES NO healthcare coverage at all YES NO Did anyone besides taxpayer or spouse pay for health care coverage for anyone listed above? YES NO Did you pay for health care coverage for anyone not listed above? If you had coverage for any part of the year: Where was the policy obtained? Employer / Medicare / Medicaid / Marketplace(Exchange) / Other If you didn't have coverage part or all of the year: Answer YES if it applies to any member of the household YES NO Was your previous insurance policy cancelled in 2014? YES NO Do you have an Exemption from the Marketplace (also called the Exchange)? YES NO Was coverage offered by taxpayer's or spouse's employer? YES NO Are you a member of a federally-recognized Indian tribe? YES NO Are you eligible for services through an Indian health care provider? YES NO Are you a member of a health care sharing ministry? YES NO Did you live in the United States the entire year? YES NO Are you enrolled in TRICARE? YES NO Did you apply for CHIP coverage? YES NO Do any of the following apply to you? Do NOT indicate which one. Became homeless Evicted in the past six months, or facing eviction or foreclosure Received a shut-off notice from a utility company Recently experienced domestic violence Recently experienced the death of a close family member Recently experienced a fire, flood, or other natural or human-caused disaster that resulted in substantial damage to your property Filed for bankruptcy in the last six months Incurred unreimbursed medical expenses in the last 24 months that resulted in substantial debt Experienced unexpected increases in essential expenses due to caring for an ill, disabled, or aging family member So everyone knows, it's still straight from Drake's organizer page, without the formatting. I agree completely with Jack. If you like that, purchase Drake! Other parts of Drake's organizer are also superior to that of ATX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 From OP's edit at 5:29pm - Wording is my modification of a Drake organizer page given to all attendees at a Chris Bird forms update seminar I attended yesterday. Yes, a paid seminar that you attended, David. I wonder if Drake Tax Software gave Mr. Bird permission to include their organizer pages in his handout materials, or if DTS is aware of this at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 JKL and Jackal from Ohio: I don't need to defend my software choice to either of you. I thought this was a forum of ATX users and apparently I was mistaken since both of you seem to be Drake software advocates and/or subscribers. To JKL: I've seen the input screens for both Drake and ATX for the ACA forms. To me it's a toss-up and matter of preference once either is mastered by preparing a few returns in familiar software. With the organizer issue though, there's no doubt in my mind that Drake beat ATX/CCH hands down this year on providing their software subscribers with a better page for the organizer. I'm not sharing the entire Drake organizer, nor have I any intention to do so, even if I had a copy. I did, though share a page that was originally provided to me. I don't know if the Drake ACA organizer page is available on the internet as of today. However, in my past dealings with Drake I've found them to be courteous and helpful with sharing resources to preparers to better serve clients, without challenging as to what current preparation software is in place.. I've added the page to my own organizer packets I am sending to each of my clients. Bottom line is that there is much confusion in the general public regarding ACA and the reporting tax return requirements for 2014 and I believe it is best to offer as much guidance as possible. To Jackal from Ohio: Pray tell what is the place of this forum named "ATX Community" if it isn't a place for ATX/CCH users to share their experiences and suggestions of ATX software????? If I'm wasting my time, as you state as a fact of my experience with CCH/ATX, so be it. However, your judgment doesn't negate my own experience with CCH/ATX and their implementation of several of my suggestions in the past few years. So it seems that my experience is that CCH listens to my input and your experience is that CCH doesn't listen to your suggestions. Buy Drake and stop complaining? That's real constructive, isn't it Jackal? Is that your way of telling me to sit down and shut up? CCH/ATX doesn't babysit my business, nor have I asked or expected them to do so. I do have what I believe to be a reasonable expectation that the CCH/ATX organizer should contain more than 2 short sentences in the general comments section for the ACA required information needed for preparing this year and future years tax returns. I also believe that if I find that a competitor includes a better request for documents than my vendor does that I should be able to voice that comparison to my vendor and expect an answer. For me Drake wins on the 2014 ACA organizer issue, however, it falls short for me in other areas of preparation that ATX continues to serve my tax practice better. And your advice to me is to shut up? Or pay an additional $ 1,000 to buy one page that works better than what I use? Really? Thanks, but no thanks, Jackal..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yes, a paid seminar that you attended, David. I wonder if Drake Tax Software gave Mr. Bird permission to include their organizer pages in his handout materials, or if DTS is aware of this at all? I'm sure you can call Chris or Drake and ask them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm not sharing the entire Drake organizer, nor have I any intention to do so, even if I had a copy. I did, though share a page that was originally provided to me. I don't know if the Drake ACA organizer page is available on the internet as of today. However, in my past dealings with Drake I've found them to be courteous and helpful with sharing resources to preparers to better serve clients, without challenging as to what current preparation software is in place.. I've added the page to my own organizer packets I am sending to each of my clients. Drake organizer is NOT available online. If you look at the bottom left of that page you scanned and originally posted, do you not see the words "Copyright 2014"? That is why I removed your attachment here...twice, not because I don't want to share useful materials with others here. I'd have shared it myself if it was legal to do so and wouldn't be a violation of the TOS I've agreed to. I'll agree with you that Drake customer service is wonderful. Maybe you should ask for their permission before sharing copyright-protected materials. I'm sure you can call Chris or Drake and ask them... I'll send Drake an email to let them know. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well, JKLCPA, it seems you're wrong about 2014 Drake organizer availability on the internet. When I entered "Drake software 2014 organizer" just now into Google search bar, the second item in the Google list is this link direct to Drake's website: http://support.drakesoftware.com/PDF/practice/Practice7.pdf The 6th page of the PDF is a sample of ficticious name "Neal Geadelli" Health Care Coverage Questionnaire. The sample printed page I received at the seminar had a different sample name that I deleted from my scan using PaperPort editing tools. So, it seems, to me at least, that there is a posting, on the internet, on Drake's public website, of a sample of their 2014 tax organizer readily available to anyone that has access to Google or other search engine. Is Google violating Drake's copyright by listing the PDF? I don't know the answer to that one. I'm a CPA, not a lawyer..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 David, I want to apologize for the way Judy and Jack jumped on you. Please know that I realize that you were just trying to be helpful, As you know, while this board started back in 2007 when CCH killed their Community board on April 10. Since then, they restarted theirs, but we kept ours! Over the years, some of our members have changed to other software but stayed here for the 'community'. Judy now uses Drake, some use Pro-series, etc. I see no problem with you linking to a publicly available form. My guess is that Drake made it available as a way to impress preparers that might see it as a reason to consider buying their product. A simple marketing decision. Thanks for the input, and please do not let this thread turn you off this board, I for one am happy to see you here. I think Judy needs some chocolate ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 KC, I left you and Eric a note in the moderator's section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I will say two things: I do feel that tax season has not started and some of the answers are too hard on this board. I don't mind if they do it to me but we have to be sensitive to other people. If we continue to be hard on people, we are going to lose good people and that's not the idea of this forum. I don't send the organizer to my people (so, to an extent I agree with Jack). I feel that if people answer the organizer correctly, the tax preparer only plugs in numbers on the tax software. (That's my personal choice). So, not having a lot of questions about ACA on the organizer is not an issue for me. Keep in mind that only 20% of the population will be affected by ACA, so for a lot of our clients ACA doesn't apply because they will check yes to: Did you and the people on your return have insurance all year? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well, I could use some chocolate. Just sayin. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well, I could use some chocolate. Just sayin. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I see no problem with you linking to a publicly available form. My guess is that Drake made it available as a way to impress preparers that might see it as a reason to consider buying their product. A simple marketing decision. My apologies to David for making any suggestion about his choice of software, but not for deleting the pdf. Once he utilized the information to create his own page of questions, I did leave that text up in both this thread and the one in the ACA forum also. FWIW, Drake DOES have a problem with the direct scan of its materials. I spoke with a company representative this morning and he was shocked to see that its one support page, current organizer, and practice return are accessible by the public. He confirmed what I already know, that Drake's support section is NOT for public consumption and is meant to be for only purchasers of Drake software, and is accessible with a user name and password via their support link on their site. He said Drake copyrighted materials should NOT be included in seminars or posted online without their permission, and was distressed to learn that the specific material I was talking about is the ACA portion of the organizer because, obviously, this is the brand new portion of their current product. All of this information is being sent up to the powers that be about the support site and the materials being included in a seminar package, and he said that Drake always goes after those that use their materials without permission. Drake has their own complete training center, their own presenters, and host seminars all over the country and online for their users. They have no need for their materials to be spread or used by outsiders for marketing or to impress anyone, especially when they have no control over how that person will present their materials. Yeah, I need a lot of chocolate...and maybe a chaser of something else too! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 We discovered on New Year's Eve that Prosecco goes great with chocolate. Hubby's birthday is today, so maybe we'll do that again tonight. Or, is red a good pairing with dark chocolate? Did you see the 60 Minutes re pot pairings with food and drink? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 That should take care of it. I just don't want David, or anyone else either, attacked for posting something that is publicly available online. Even if it was public by mistake, that mistake was not David's it was Drake's. Peace, Judy and Jack. Lion, I like Moscato d'Asti with dark Chocolate myself ! I'm not waiting for a birthday either ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 That should take care of it. I just don't want David, or anyone else either, attacked for posting something that is publicly available online. Even if it was public by mistake, that mistake was not David's it was Drake's. Peace, Judy and Jack. Lion, I like Moscato d'Asti with dark Chocolate myself ! I'm not waiting for a birthday either ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 My apologies to David for making any suggestion about his choice of software, but not for deleting the pdf. Once he utilized the information to create his own page of questions, I did leave that text up in both this thread and the one in the ACA forum also. FWIW, Drake DOES have a problem with the direct scan of its materials. I spoke with a company representative this morning and he was shocked to see that its one support page, current organizer, and practice return are accessible by the public. He confirmed what I already know, that Drake's support section is NOT for public consumption and is meant to be for only purchasers of Drake software, and is accessible with a user name and password via their support link on their site. He said Drake copyrighted materials should NOT be included in seminars or posted online without their permission, and was distressed to learn that the specific material I was talking about is the ACA portion of the organizer because, obviously, this is the brand new portion of their current product. All of this information is being sent up to the powers that be about the support site and the materials being included in a seminar package, and he said that Drake always goes after those that use their materials without permission. Drake has their own complete training center, their own presenters, and host seminars all over the country and online for their users. They have no need for their materials to be spread or used by outsiders for marketing or to impress anyone, especially when they have no control over how that person will present their materials. Yeah, I need a lot of chocolate...and maybe a chaser of something else too! I, too, have sent an email to Drake regarding their form. I addressed the email to both support and sales at Drake. As of this writing I've received a what appears to be a computer generated reply from Drake software support assigning a "ticket number" and commitment for an agent to respond as soon as possible. Here is the content of my email to Drake: "Hello Drake Support and Sales, Let me start by stating I am not a current Drake program subscriber. I use CCH/ATX and have done so for over 13 years. You don’t currently support payroll tax return preparation and that is a significant part of my practice and why I am not a Drake subscriber. This past Saturday I attended a tax seminar that included a copy of your sample page from your 2014 organizer that demonstrated the ACA questions your subscribers are asking their clients to provide to their preparer. Unfortunately for me, CCH/ATX placed only 2 sentences in the general area of their organizer and I believe it is woefully short of the requirements taxpayers need to provide to properly prepare a tax return. Attached is a PDF I made from a scan of the sample page that I received. You’ll see I have made it a page I can print and send to each of my clients for them to fill and return to me. Please note that I have kept the Drake copyright statement and page number intact on the page. I send out 300 organizers and typically receive back about 100 or so each year. I believe that up to 50% of my clients may be required to answer the ACA questions in detail as shown on your organizer page. May I have your permission to include this blank form with the organizers I am sending to my clients? Your help and cooperation is greatly appreciated. Sincerely," David W. Ristau CPA KC, yes I remember when you opened this forum and I remember joining shortly thereafter. FWIW, I tend to not spend a lot of time on official or unofficial forums, since as a 1 man shop time does seem to get short during tax season, particularly when software vendors such as CCH/ATX seem to forget what it's like to actually prepare a return and meet face to face with clients. I had thought that after the 2012 debacle CCH/ATX had learned from the mistake of selling an alpha and beta stage product as being finished. I served as one of their beta testers for 2013 and again for 2014 software. IMO, as long as the focus of tax preparation software remains on the best product to service a client, both preparers and the public benefit. When cost-cutting and cutting corners take precedence in order to improve the bottom line, preparers and the public suffer. I can't answer why CCH/ATX chose to limit the organizer questions for ACA to only 2 sentences. Nor is it really my responsibility to do so. It is, however, my responsibility to seek out solutions for my clients. In this case, Drake has a solution to a need my clients face: providing me with information to prepare a complete tax return. I'm not interested in plagiarizing Drake's form and I have not ever claimed their work as my own. Their copyright and form number remain on the page I prepared from their sample page. Drake includes their ACA organizer sample page on their own website. I believe the email I sent to Drake is a reasonable request. We shall see.... FWIW, CCH/ATX response has been to deny me access to their community board over the matter. Typical corporate response, IMO, to shoot the messenger rather than correct the issue or solve the problem. So, perhaps Jackal in Ohio was correct about CCH/ATX not caring. I'll return to post Drake's reply to me when it lands in my in-box. In the meantime, I'll be going back to monitoring this forum with minimal input. David W Ristau 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 That's a very nice request, David. I'm glad you sent it, and would sincerely like to hear about the response you receive. Just to clarify for anyone else reading this and truly not trying to plug a product (because I do think the ATX payroll compliance module is superior), but in fairness, Drake's CWU module is provided to purchasers as part of their tax package and allows for creating and e-filing of the 941, 940, w-2s, and 1099s "on the fly" without having to use it for write up. What it doesn't do, for me at least, it doesn't produce an acceptable file for filing w-2s electronically for my state. I'm not surprised at ATX banning people that complain, no matter how small the complaint. They've done in past years over lesser "offenses" and was the big reason for their shutting down the site in 2007 as KC mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 To jklcpa: Latest reply from Drake software support at 8:55 PM CST 01-13-2015: "Thank you for contacting Drake Software Support. I have passed on your request to the appropriate sources and am awaiting a response. Thank you for your continued patience." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanmcq Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Lol. I don't send out full organizers unless requested, but I do send out the questionnaires. I've a detailed ACA questionnaire that was shared on another board that I'll be using during my interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Ristau CPA Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) As of 01-17-2015 there's been no final response from Drake Software. AND There are 300 organizers in the mail with the Drake copyright in place front page before the regular organizer from our office out in mail today. While I can appreciate getting permission to use a blank form, I believe 5 days was long enough for Drake to send me an email yay or nay. Copyright is in place on each blank form. For me the issue is closed for 2014 organizers containing a questionnaire page being mailed. I can only hope that for 2015 CCH/ATX puts money and programmer time to write their own ACA page, OR borrow one from sister CCH company ProSystems which ATX user LML posted on the ATX community website. Link is here for ATX people reading this: https://community.atxinc.com/forums/permalink/196085/196636/ShowThread.aspx#196636 At least ProSystems gave their users an option to include/exclude and reasons about it. Why nobody at ATX programming or marketing thought to ask to borrow the CCH/ ProSystems form, or at least disclose on the community page that permission had been denied is a mystery to me. Perhaps it's a function of corporate politics, and being a one preparer office I don't have such politics. After thinking on it some more, I now believe that the reason why ATX organizer didn't include 2014 ACA question page is a lack of dollars spent on something management deemed not having enough importance to its 40,000 (claimed) customer base. And smaller company Drake found the money to do it right and put in a whole page. Forward thinking, Drake. Thank you. Kudos to Drake and better thinking next time CCH/ATX. Edited January 17, 2015 by David Ristau CPA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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