BLACK BART Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 As I understand it, the married filing separate taxpayer filing first sets the method for the second filer, whether it be standard or itemized. I've got a client who claims he is separated from and did not live with the wife at any time during the year. He has lots of deductions and wants to itemize, but I suspect maybe they DID live together and she's already filed standard as HOH and gotten EIC. I know the taxing of some usually not-taxed SOCIAL SECURITY can be avoided if they didn't live together for the last six months, but how about ITEMIZED DEDUCTIONS? Assuming that they actually DID NOT live together at all during the year, would that have any bearing on him being able to itemize or not even if she filed standard. I think it wouldn't be relevant, but just thought I'd take the pulse of the board (probably just grasping at straws). Thanks for any advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 If one spouse itemizes filing MFS, then both spouses must itemize if both are filing MFS. (I think it's technically that the standard deduction of the other spouse is then $0.) Not first to file. The itemizer sets the method. Also, if the other spouse is not filing MFS (such as HOH) then not governed by the one itemizing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, BLACK BART said: Assuming that they actually DID NOT live together at all during the year, would that have any bearing on him being able to itemize or not even if she filed standard. I think it wouldn't be relevant... I agree with you, it's irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 In related news (sorta), during our six year separation, my now ex-husband filed as Single and set world land speed records filing early in the season. I filed much later, HOH, and itemized. If someone turned him in (not naming any names), I assume that IRS would say, "Oh, too bad, so sad, your SD is zero pay up," because he used fraudulent, perjurious, incorrect filing status. But I have wondered about the first to file thing. Not with him, but with non-lying liar holes who don't lie about their filing status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanmcq Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 But how do you really feel about the subject, Rita? He didn't go into your backyard, did he? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, joanmcq said: But how do you really feel about the subject, Rita? He didn't go into your backyard, did he? Well, I want to see what y'all think IRS would do to him first. You know, there is a time for everything. A time to embrace, a time to refrain from embracing, a time to die. You know, I like how Ecclesiastes lays it out. Patience is a virtue and all that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 I think the answer to the original post has been provided but how about this scenario: Parents lived apart since June 18 of the tax year. One parent took the only child and filed as HH and itemized deductions. Can the other use the standard deduction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Pacun said: I think the answer to the original post has been provided but how about this scenario: Parents lived apart since June 18 of the tax year. One parent took the only child and filed as HH and itemized deductions. Can the other use the standard deduction? Yes. But this is an entirely different, not related, scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 9 hours ago, Pacun said: I think the answer to the original post has been provided but how about this scenario: Parents lived apart since June 18 of the tax year. One parent took the only child and filed as HH and itemized deductions. Can the other use the standard deduction? I'm going with "no" on this one. It was my situation for six years, and I think I had my head around it. "If a TP files MFS and his or her spouse itemizes, the TP's standard deduction is zero. BUT a TP filing HOH can claim the [normal] standard deduction if his or her spouse itemizes." I think that's correct. Plus I'm quoting from 2015 TheTaxBook Deluxe Edition 3-11. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 what I always wonder in these situations is, if separated and not speaking to each other, how would one spouse know how the other was filing. Not looking it up now but if they lived apart all year under a legal separation agreement, can't they file as single? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Not single if still married on 31 December. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) 54 minutes ago, michaelmars said: what I always wonder in these situations is, if separated and not speaking to each other, how would one spouse know how the other was filing. Not looking it up now but if they lived apart all year under a legal separation agreement, can't they file as single? Lion is correct. If they are not talking, you itemize deductions on your return (The return you prepare) even if less than standard deduction. Keep in mind that this is an issue only when people make little money. If someone makes 100K and paid 7K to the state on his W-2, itemized deductions will be selected if you open Sch A. Edited April 9, 2016 by Pacun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraEA Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 A few years ago I asked some IRS agents who were classmates in a graduate program with me whether the IRS had any way of knowing if one spouse itemized and the other did not. All of them said that unless the other spouse was under audit for some other reason, they were not authorized to go into that person's return. This conforms with a recent TIGTA report that the IRS isn't doing a very good job of tracking this. They could probably solve the lack of oversight by a computer programming detail, but we all know how behind their computers are. So I guess it's up to us, fellow preparers, to enforce the law as written knowing full well there is little chance of the IRS noticing. I do ask clients if their estranged spouse itemizes; if they say s/he owns a house and makes six figures a year (= lots of state income tax to deduct), I make the client itemize. If they say they don't know, I do whatever works best for the client. Let the IRS figure it out. Even though they require me to do their work, I am not on their payroll, do not get their cushy benefits and retirement plan. I work for and get paid by my client. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 1 hour ago, michaelmars said: what I always wonder in these situations is, if separated and not speaking to each other, how would one spouse know how the other was filing. Not looking it up now but if they lived apart all year under a legal separation agreement, can't they file as single? 1) In my case, I found out during the Discovery process. 2) Yes, but I have never seen a legal separation in 22 years of doing taxes. I think it's very uncommon. Publication 17 says you are considered unmarried if on the last day of the year, you are a) unmarried, or b ) Legally separated from your spouse under a divorce or separate maintenance decree. State law governs whether you are married or legally separated under a divorce or separate maintenance decree. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 My classmate used to help me with a couple of returns and then went to work for the IRS. We met a couple of years later and told me that they don't have permissions to see any other return unless they have justification. If they do, they request their manager to open another return and the manager makes the requests on their behalf to a higher authority. I agree that that is a good rule because otherwise, a lot of IRS employees will be looking at Trump's, Madonna's, Bill Gates', etc. returns and they would barely work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 CT doesn't have legal separations, or so a family law attorney told me. If I had a client who claimed one, I'd research that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 53 minutes ago, Lion EA said: CT doesn't have legal separations, or so a family law attorney told me. If I had a client who claimed one, I'd research that. I googled "legal separation in CT," and appears to be an option. After a six year divorce, I gotta say, if a TN lawyer said it, I'd research it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Yeah, some high-end, high $, high publicity divorces drag on and on and actually can get a court rubber-stamped separation, usually if all the $ stuff is hammered out and it's child custody issues dragging on or cash support is mostly agreed upon but assets are still being argued over. And, those men (it's usually the men that are the higher earners) want to be able to write off support payments, even if they're still arguing over the kids or who gets the ski lodge in VT. (My divorce was not one of those and didn't qualify for a legal separation while the other side drug their feet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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