Second (and Subsequent) Year Installment Agreements

[RitaB]

New client who is completely helpless, mainly because he wants to be, has an Installment Agreement for 2014.  He needs one for 2015.  I told him five weeks ago to call IRS, as directed at the top of [this] Form 9465 [at the number I have highlighted in orange, no less].   https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f9465.pdf

Well, he sent his secretary in two weeks ago, because he is too busy to fool with these things, saying he called, and IRS told him to set it up online.  I'm guessing he never got around to telling IRS employee that he already has an agreement for 2014, but more importantly, I'm biting my tongue wanting to say, "Well, have at it, and get out of my office."  I know full well they just want me to do it.  Not interested, can't charge what it's worth, don't think it's doable anyway. Also not interested in calling IRS for (or with) this person.  This is not a tax issue; it's an irresponsible issue.  If you can run a business, you can make arrangements to pay your taxes. 

I tell her, "Go back to your office, tell him to CALL IRS as directed right here on this Form 9465, at the number I have highlighted in orange, no less, and make sure you tell them that it's a SECOND INSTALLMENT AGREEMENT REQUEST."

Secretary leaves me a message yesterday saying they just can't get this thing set up online.  You don't say.  Before I call this client's office on Monday, or go by and hug all of them, I just need to check with you buddies here and make sure you've not had clients who have successfully ignored the instructions and been able to set up second year installment agreements online.  I'd hate to be embarrassed. 

[Lion EA]

I have one that had to revise agreements multiple years to keep adding new years (long story, includes a FL rental that fell into a sink hole, lack of NY w/h for hubby, tax preparer disappeared, and more).  She made a call each year and asked nicely.  It stretched her out until we got their withholding in good shape going forward.  She still has a long way to go to pay off the older years; but at $200/month and no more new balances due, they will make it.

Tell him to CALL.

[Lion EA]

Probably not for subsequent agreements, but just saw this posted:

IRS ‏@IRStaxpros3 hours ago

New streamlined installment agreement criteria being tested thru Sep 30, 2017. More info now available #IRS http://go.usa.gov/xKeUc 

[JohnH]

If the total owed is under $25K, I think they can get the two years combined.  Limits may be higher, but I know someone who did this recently.   They filed the second year with a balance due, an existing IA defaulted.  They called IRS and got a new IA set up for both years combined.  But they didn't do it online - they had to make the call. 

[RitaB]

3 hours ago, JohnH said:

If the total owed is under $25K, I think they can get the two years combined.  Limits may be higher, but I know someone who did this recently.   They filed the second year with a balance due, an existing IA defaulted.  They called IRS and got a new IA set up for both years combined.  But they didn't do it online - they had to make the call. 

Yes, that is my understanding as well, they have to call so that IRS can combine the years.  (I think the limit may be $50,000).  And, yes, in that first agreement, they agreed they'd pay on time in subsequent years.  They obviously did not do that.  It makes perfect sense to me that they have to call.  And be grateful as all get out for the consideration they are going to be given.

[jklcpa]

Clearly where you went wrong in instructing these people was using the orange highlighter instead of traditional yellow.   

[RitaB]

8 hours ago, jklcpa said:

Clearly where you went wrong in instructing these people was using the orange highlighter instead of traditional yellow.   

Yes.  I think I have learned my lesson on this one.  I hope this helps some fellow tax pro.  Orange you glad you know??

[BLACK BART]

I learn something new every day -- jJust found this at IRS site. 

Apply for an Online Payment Agreement for Individuals and Businesses

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This application allows a qualified taxpayer or authorized representative (Power of Attorney) the opportunity to avoid long telephone wait times or the need to visit or write to an IRS office to apply for an installment agreement. Once you complete the online process, you will receive immediate notification of whether your agreement has been approved.

You can also use the links below to revise an existing Online Payment Agreement (unless you have a Direct Debit Installment Agreement) or to modify your e-authentication security profile.

            ____________________________________________

Apparently they (or you) CAN do it (see second paragraph - I couldn't get the link to post). I myself have never had a client set up a either a first year or add a second year either successfully or unsuccessfully.  Most won't even try -- as you said, they want YOU to do it.  I haven't had a situation like yours; mostly I just fill out the 9465 with the EF return or mail in a paper one if it's old stuff, but I've never actually done one either way for a second year. 

If I didn't want to fool with this junk (and I wouldn't), but wanted to keep his business I think I'd tell him I can't do it because I'm not authorized to without a power of attorney on file and that takes a long now because IRS is very much backed up (true).  I was going to say just give him a paper 9465 to mail, but looking at the form it says "Do not file this form if you are currently making payments on an installment agreement...instead call 1-800-82-1040". The secretary may have never actually talked to them, but just stayed on hold longer than she wanted to and now wants you to. 

Sorry, not much helpful advice, other than just saying "No, I don't have time."      

[BLACK BART]

On the other hand, thinking about it, this second paragraph about online agreement revision could possibly be limited to only the year originally applied for.  Good grief, IRS' vague instructions make it almost impossible to advise clients (especially the important ones) for sure what they can and can't do.   

"You can also use the links below to revise an existing Online Payment Agreement (unless you have a Direct Debit Installment Agreement) or to modify your e-authentication security profile".

Maybe somebody else has an idea?

[JohnH]

I don't generally get involved in the installment agreements - I just tell the clients to do an online application or call IRS when they get their notice and it's usually a pretty simple process if they meet the guidelines.  Most report back to me that it was easy.  But in the few cases I did get involved, I didn't use the POA.  I'd just check with the client to be sure they'd be available for an hour or two, then I'd call IRS and put the call on speaker while I did something important.  When the IRS rep came on the line I'd ask if I can briefly put them on hold to conference the client in.  Once that was done, we handled everything on a conference call.  With only an exception or two, most clients came away form the process impressed by how easy it was to deal with the IRS employee. 

[RitaB]

4 hours ago, BLACK BART said:

On the other hand, thinking about it, this second paragraph about online agreement revision could possibly be limited to only the year originally applied for.  Good grief, IRS' vague instructions make it almost impossible to advise clients (especially the important ones) for sure what they can and can't do.   

This is what I took it to mean.  I'll see what she says tomorrow about why she failed at setting it up.  Not that I will learn anything from what she says.   I know she was texting me questions while I was watching a Webinar:  Is the form 1040, 1040A, or 1040-EZ?  Did he file jointly, separately, or HOH?  It was really baffling to me that she either did not have the return there, or couldn't figure out the basics.

[Jack from Ohio]

1 hour ago, RitaB said:

  It was really baffling to me that she either did not have the return there, or couldn't figure out the basics.

Or both...

[Gail in Virginia]

I usually tell the client that the IRS is more understanding and helpful if the taxpayer talks to them rather than a paid professional, and that therefore they should call personally to set up an installment agreement.

 

[easytax]

19 hours ago, RitaB said:

This is what I took it to mean.  I'll see what she says tomorrow about why she failed at setting it up.  Not that I will learn anything from what she says.   I know she was texting me questions while I was watching a Webinar:  Is the form 1040, 1040A, or 1040-EZ?  Did he file jointly, separately, or HOH?  It was really baffling to me that she either did not have the return there, or couldn't figure out the basics.

Rita,  Did you already have your written authorization to share the clients information with her?????    I ask this for three reasons --- want to keep you around for your knowledge; want to keep you available to "hug" clients (yours or mine) in the future; and also as a genuine question in thinking about who (other than actual client) we can "officially" and safely share information with (even basics) such as this --- without formal authorization to "protect" ourselves.

        Be well, have a GREAT Thanksgiving and keep on "hugging" and giving ....

 

[RitaB]

3 hours ago, easytax said:

Rita,  Did you already have your written authorization to share the clients information with her?????    I ask this for three reasons --- want to keep you around for your knowledge; want to keep you available to "hug" clients (yours or mine) in the future; and also as a genuine question in thinking about who (other than actual client) we can "officially" and safely share information with (even basics) such as this --- without formal authorization to "protect" ourselves.

        Be well, have a GREAT Thanksgiving and keep on "hugging" and giving ....

 

 I will be sure and take your advice under consideration.  Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.