Edsel Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 All of the PPP loans with which I have knowledge are being applied for by entities that really don't need them. Many of them are from companies that are not even affected by the virus. They are being told that the loan is a reward for not laying off people, even though the people would not be laid off anyway. Seems like the $$$ is going to those who are creditworthy to begin with and have strong banking connections. "Creditworthy to begin with" implies they would scarcely be affected by 8 weeks of measurement. What is wrong with this picture?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 Doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Why not just directly help the people laid off? I think they're just shooting in the dark, trying whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail in Virginia Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 I thought they were directly helping the people laid off by adding $600 a week to their unemployment from the federal government. What I don't understand, if everyone either has a job or can get unemployment (or is business as usual getting their retirement, government assistance, whatever) why are they not able to pay their rent? Or afford food? I understand some increase in need from small businesses who have no income coming in and are having difficulty proving their self-employment to draw unemployment since that has also been expanded to include them, but is it really that many people? Are they all working in the underground economy so that they can't show any earnings? Maybe someone should make a list and investigate them for back taxes after this is over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 Duh, it's an election year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abby Normal Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 Employees in MD had no problem getting unemployment but self-employed are still waiting for the state to figure it out. The simple solution would just be direct payments to individuals from the feds monthly until things get back to normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 I disagree with the sentiment above. The company I work for is completely shut down except for accounting and Management (lucky me, only a 10% pay cut...so far). We furloughed 165 employees. Revenue is zero. But we still have to pay our leases for the building. We still have alarm systems, water bills, and the benefits for our employees. These obligations need to be paid. The owners have stopped taking draws, and are putting money into the company to keep it afloat. How are they supposed to pay their bills with no income from the company? And there are hundreds or thousands of "non-essential" companies like us who are in this same boat. If we stop paying our lease, how is the landlord going to pay their bills? While our employees are on UI, they are still not getting the enhanced amount. The Governor of CA threw 3 million people out of work, and was shocked when they all filed for unemployment? The CA EDD cannot keep up. The system requires that the employer verify the wages of the worker, but the businesses are shut down or working with less staff. A PPP loan would be awesome for us. We had great credit, until our revenues went to nothing. Who would loan to a company without revenue? And when this opens up, my projection for the company is at best break even for the year. Who is going to loan money to a company that is struggling? That is not how banking works. How are we going to get the funds for our planned expansion? We had projected to add over 100 jobs later this year when we built and opened our third facility, but that may not happen now, or may be delayed while we build back our profits and credit worthiness. Please tell the children of our hard working employees that they can't live the life their parents want to give them because they are "non-essential". Sorry if this is offensive, but there is a different side to this story. We cannot get a PPP loan, so our employees sit at home and our company withers on the vine. Not looking for sympathy, just explaining that there were good reasons for the PPP loan program. I just hope the scammers and leaches of the country don't get all the money instead of the companies who provide good jobs and benefits. JMHO. Tom Modesto, CA 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 Tom, I agree with you, and it isn't offensive, it is the reality that nonessential businesses are facing. I am curious why your employees aren't getting the extra $600 a week though? I know that may not seem like much in states with higher cost of living like CA or NY and surrounding metro areas, but here I've heard from some laid off employees that are collecting more through unemployment than they were as paid employees, and I think there should have been a cap on that. Why should someone actually be making more from the shutdown being unemployed than when they were working? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, jklcpa said: . . . . ., but here I've heard from some laid off employees that are collecting more through unemployment than they were as paid employees, and I think there should have been a cap on that. Why should someone actually be making more from the shutdown being unemployed than when they were working? It depends on the state, some states like MS and FL have very low unemployment benefits, so that in those states even with the extra $ 600 a week some employees may not be making more. For example I believe Florida's maximum weekly benefit is $ 275. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 hour ago, jklcpa said: Tom, I agree with you, and it isn't offensive, it is the reality that nonessential businesses are facing. I am curious why your employees aren't getting the extra $600 a week though? Because the California EDD has not been able to update its computer systems to distribute the cash yet. CA UI is pretty much a hands off system in normal times. Employee gets laid off, files a claim online, the computer spits out a form to the employer who confirms the reason laid off and the wages earned. This normally happens during the 3 weeks it takes to get your first check. If the employer rejects the claim or the EDD thinks there is something fishy, they call the employee in for an interview and get hands on with the claim. Otherwise, it is a pretty automated process. Then 3 million claims came in over a 4 week period (10 times the normal volume). Add to that the self-employed who were never eligible before, and the number of employees at the EDD taking time off to homeschool their kids, and there is just a huge mess trying to get these payments out. The system was not updated to handle self-employed nor did they have time to update it for the extra cash from the CARES act. The Governor is not taking questions about it, the EDD is directing people to their websites because they can't handle the call volume, and no one knows for sure when the money will be distributed. Yesterday, the Governor outlawed protests at the state capital (for health reasons - much sarcasm intended by me). The constitution is only good for toilet paper in this state right now. Tom Modesto, CA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Randall said: Doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Why not just directly help the people laid off? I think they're just shooting in the dark, trying whatever. I believe the intent of the Paycheck Protection Program was to enable business to continue to pay employees while revenue is down and/or stopped - to keep employees tied to the business (employed) so those businesses will have an easier time opening back up and carrying on. I think that's smart. I also think it's being abused. Honor System 101. I hope the people it's intended for get the grants. I do. It's better for all of us if the country gets back up and running as smoothly as possible. I have seen a few of my business owners really taking advantage here, one in particular has a business that is booming, and I am completely disgusted at him. I'm not sure if people don't understand what they're attesting to or understand completely and think it's great. Some of both types I think. Also, I agree that it was a huge mistake making unemployment income exceed the earnings it is supposed to replace. That one will cause a lot of unnecessary problems. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 cbslee and Tom, thanks for explaining. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 hours ago, BulldogTom said: I disagree with the sentiment above. Hey Tom - You believe you are taking issue with me, but in fact, you are only confirming my case. One of the things that has illuminated my recent years is the concept of "image versus substance." And yours is a perfect example. The image is "we're going to do something for businesses that are suffering because of this virus." The substance? Does your company, badly needing this, actually HAVE a PPP loan? Apparently not. Who does? You can start with Harvard University's permanent endowment fund, $4.7 MM. Many of the Fortune 500 companies have loans of $10MM - from what is told, they have this simply for not laying off their people, whether or not they would have been laid off anyway. Those entities needing it the most are not getting it. The money is going to the well-heeled with the slickest banking connections. Apparently California is playing a part in your situation. I don't know or understand California but I believe what you are saying. Like I told my cousin in Vacaville. Move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Edsel said: Hey Tom - You believe you are taking issue with me, but in fact, you are only confirming my case. Wasn't taking issue with you per se. It seemed like the tone of the entire thread was "businesses don't need this money", when in fact they do. Maybe I am just sensitive right now, because I see a failure of government at every turn in this crisis. The PPP was a good idea that died on the floor of big government and greedy bankers. And the people who are really suffering are my friends and colleagues at our company. Makes me feel guilty that I am still working when they are not. Tom Modesto, CA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 hours ago, RitaB said: Also, I agree that it was a huge mistake making unemployment income exceed the earnings it is supposed to replace. That one will cause a lot of unnecessary problems. I think that is a regional issue. In CA, the maximum amount of UI you can get per week is $450. And the workers who we furloughed don't get that much, closer to $300 per week. With rent on a 2 bedroom apartment at about $1800 per month, you can see that regular UI is not going to cut it for our workers. The extra $600 will really get them close, but not above, their normal wages in our area. I bet it is much worse for people in the major cities trying to get by on UI only. Tom Modesto, CA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Edsel, please don't confuse funds designated for the SBA's PPP loans with the funds that the CARES Act designated for institutions for higher education. The amounts available to each institution was determined by some formula that Congress came up with and this has nothing to do with the PPP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 I'm also rather disgusted by the $10 BILLION that BoA alone made on the PPP loans they've processed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, BulldogTom said: I think that is a regional issue. Tom Modesto, CA Absolutely. In Seattle, for example, it is illegal for anyone to make less than $600 for a 40 hr week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Edsel said: Absolutely. In Seattle, for example, it is illegal for anyone to make less than $600 for a 40 hr week. Actually you are wrong, the minimum wage in Seattle is currently $13.50 per hour. Perhaps you are thinking of the small suburb of SeaTeac where it is $ 15.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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