Elrod Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Oh.! Geeze.! http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?articleid=28338 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 The article says they propose to exempt preparers who file under 50 returns, with additional exceptions for people who opt out voluntarily. Looks like I'll be raising my rates again next year to try and drive off a few more clients - and maybe charge an extra $100 for anyone who wants to efile (unless they want to sign an opt-out wavier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 >>drive off a few more clients - and maybe charge an extra $100 for anyone who wants to efile<< Good plan, if early retirement is your goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Excellent point, but I wouldn't exactly call it EARLY retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 >>I wouldn't exactly call it EARLY retirement<< I can identify with you on that point. The term is redundant--in my world, ANY retirement would be early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 ...Looks like I'll be raising my rates again next year to try and drive off a few more clients - and maybe charge an extra $100 for anyone who wants to efile... You may refer them to me. I am trying to increase my business! E-File has been good for my business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelgilb Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 The article says they propose to exempt preparers who file under 50 returns, with additional exceptions for people who opt out voluntarily. Looks like I'll be raising my rates again next year to try and drive off a few more clients - and maybe charge an extra $100 for anyone who wants to efile (unless they want to sign an opt-out wavier). John, I have converted several hold outs to E-file and once they tried it they wondered why they didn't convert sooner. Try it You'll Like it! As for me, I was one of the first in my area to offer Free E-file, when everyone else was charging for it. Brought in a number of clients at the time (got me from around 750 returns to over 1000. I since scaled back and restructured my practice and got rid of most of the easy returns and focus more on representation in front of IRS , appeals and Tax Court (don't kill myself this way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I think one reason for this push is that then the IRS would have virtually total control over who could be a tax preparer, without any other mitigating factors. If you could not get an EFIN, or you lost your EFIN for any reason, wham, you would be out of business, that day. And this without any recourse except to appeal to the very agency that just took it away from you. I know of one attorney who in the past had his EFIN suspended, for a reason that was not covered by anything in the code, and it took him many months to get that reversed. There was NO recourse for him except to keep on nagging at the IRS, and even getting his Congressman involved did not help much. Although at least the Congressman was able to get the IRS to finally respond to his appeal, and once they had to give that Congressman a reason based on a violation of the code, which they could not do, they did turn it back on. But that was 8 months after the suspension. Anyone here want to be in limbo for 8 months, unable to efile? Forced to paper file everything? Now, imagine on top of that if the only way you could file was efile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 There are many reasons I don't efile, having more to do with the way I operate my business than with any specific benefit to the client. I've discussed this with many of my clients and they don't care whether or not I efile since the majority of them owe money anyhow. Basically, they and I agree that my job is not to be a data input clerk for the IRS. But what KC just posted has always been a significant factor for me. I recognize the administrative and processing benefits offered by efiling, but I just don't have any desire to voluntarily turn over the power to shut me down to the whims of a bureaucrat or a computer glitch, and I have seen that happen to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelgilb Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Guess I should have expanded on my post. I do think e-file is generally the way to go. However, I do agree that it should NOT be mandated. Government has too much control in every facet of our lives and Orwell's 1984 is certainly more a reality today than it was in 1984. Take the Patriot Act for instance; another Red Scare IMHO. I do wonder if IRS's motivation is the ability to shut down a preparer or to eliminate basic keypunch jobs and shift their resources to other areas, such as audit and collection. Not sure we will ever know, but I agree that if they get the power, they will eventually abuse it and attack our ability to prepare returns by attacking our EFIN's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 >>I wouldn't exactly call it EARLY retirement<< I can identify with you on that point. The term is redundant--in my world, ANY retirement would be early. In my world, also; unless my brain stops working.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 >>my job is not to be a data input clerk for the IRS<< Don't be petty. It is not about making things easy for the IRS. Your job is indeed to get data to the IRS, and you should have a strong desire to control as much of that data flow as possible. Why should some temp hire have a chance to transpose your numbers? Why should some spacey mailroom drudge even be involved in which pages are attached? Why should something as basic as the filing date be at the discretion of government agents? Although I tend to take conservative tax positions, having a defensible return is truly only my backup strategy. My motto is, you can look but you better not touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Most all the IRS letters I've dealt with were on paper-filed returns where a data entry error occurred on the IRS end. The ES payments entered on the WH line, so the refund is held up asking for additional copies of her 1099-Rs while we guess at the problem. The HOH that was coded as S but the letter went out claiming a miscalculation on her 4797. We painstakingly had to recreate everything on her 4797 and her E and provide backup and again guess at the real problem. Way too time consuming when e-file would've avoided that type of thing. Not to mention the time and expense to print, assemble, etc., the extra copies of the returns, envelopes. And, if I have to mail to client -- well the package is twice as heavy and now time-sensitive since they have to receive it in time to sign and mail to governments by the deadline. (When it's just client copies, they can pick up whenever they want; or at least, I can wait to mail them until I'm less busy.) And, on and on. I too like the control of e-file. I don't like to turn over all my hard work to some seasonal data entry clerk working the overnight shift plugged in to her iPod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 On the one hand I don't disagree with either of you, but on the other hand why stop with the IRS end? True client service would include verifying things such as W2 forms and home mortgage interest statements, since those are usually the two major items on the average return. Maybe have the client bring in all their check stubs to be sure the employer's data entry people didn't make a mistake somewhere along the way in preparing the W-2. Maybe get a copy of their home mortgage note and copies of mortgage payment checks & run the math to verify that the lender's data entry people entered everything properly for interest and property taxes. Church financial secretries make a lot of mistakes, so maybe it' a goo idea to add up all the conribution checks to be sure they're on the contribution statement. I know I'm still being petty according to jainen's reasoning, but in all honesty I think I'll do my job as I see it and let everyone else in the process do theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I don't bear the brunt of the blame for what went before me, if it sounds reasonable to me. But, the client will blame me for what goes wrong with a return that I prepared if he gets an IRS letter. And, more important, it costs me TIME to fix the problem. Time that I often cannot bill the client if he cannot see the dividing line between me and the IRS. Time that I can avoid, along with the additional time and supplies cost of paper file, if I go one step further with the return. And that step doesn't even cost me time; in fact it saves me time. First year on my own, but I e-filed individual returns and extensions. Next year, I'll get braver and e-file entities. I did e-file entity extensions this year to test the waters. So fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 You know, I hear this frequently about how clients don't want to pay for IRS errors, but that hasn't been my experience. If I make a mistake, I fix it and I don't bill for it. If IRS makes a mistake, I charge for the time to fix the error and most clients have never complained (maybe some just left without complaining - who knows?). But most clients have enough common sense to understand where the responsibility lies if it's just explained to them properly. If they don't have enough judgement to figure that out or enough trust in me to accept my explanation, then I probably don't want their business. I'm not really criticizing eflinging or the people who do it, I'm just saying it isn't for everybody and the IRS has no business trying to force anyone to use it if they dont' want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 >>the IRS has no business trying to force anyone to use it<< Some people say that about the whole tax system. But you miss the point with, "clients have enough common sense to understand where the responsibility lies." It isn't a question of who to BLAME. It's a question of using a professional to avoid the problems in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 So who do you blame if you use efile and still have a problem? I only prepared about 200 returns last year and had 2 or 3 issues to come up which would have been caught in advance had I been using efile. That's professional enough for me, and apparently it is for my clients. Your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail in Virginia Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I would rather the IRS didn't force people to efile, but several states are already doing that. Virginia requires you to either e-file or use software with a 3-d barcode that is up to their standards if you prepare 50 returns or more each year. And I have to agree that efiling eliminates some error notices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 At the firm where I work, we e-filed approx 2,100 returns. Another 700 were paper filed by client request. I am the person who fixes the "glitches" and takes care of notices. Total issues due to problems with e-file = 12. 6 in the first two weeks of February. No notices received by clients for these issues. All handled in house by e-mail or fax. Average of 15 minutes to research and correct. Total issues due to input errors at the IRS = 6 in the last 10 days. 6 notices received by clients (and more on the way I am sure) showing a past due amount of anywhere from $150 - $6,000. Average of 2 hours per notice to research and correct. Most were due to Line 58 and 59 numbers not keyed in or put on the wrong line. You do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 >>200 returns last year and had 2 or 3 issues.... That's professional enough for me, and apparently it is for my clients.<< Do you mean ALL of your clients, or just 197 of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I'll have to give you a definite answer next year when we find out if those 2 or 3 come back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 >>a definite answer next year<< Fair enough, but I probably won't be around next year. Here in California efile is mandatory and all paid preparers must be registered, so I doubt our industry can survive much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Yes, I know. Fortunately CA allows an exception for out-of-state preparers, so my one CA return is still a paper filing. If they ever require me to efile, I'll have a nice referral for a preparer located near Walnut Creek, CA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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