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When I first started, we would staple 3 pages of each form together with carbon between them. Top set went to IRS, middle set went in our files, and bottom set to the client. Then the carbonless sets on NCR paper came along. THAT was high tech! But they were expensive - I seem to recall about 35 cents per page. We would prepare the main forms using that paper and revert to the carbon paper sets for lesser-used schedules. The return looked like a product from a committe. For the high-few returns we would prepare them by hand, then type them on a typewriter, and photocopy them. My first copier used liquid toner, the paper came in rolls, and the copies had a gray cast to the background.

Averages tell you something, but they don't tell you everything. For example, if I place one hand in the freezer and the other hand in a hot oven , then on average I should be feeling about right. Or, as my former pastor used to reply when some would ask him what the "average" honorarium is for a wedding, funeral, etc -> "Well, the average is about $150, but hardly anybody ever gives the average."

I know what you mean, NECPA; but, unless I'm allowed to 'pry' into such questions about *entities* co-owned by my client(s) and other family members -- as the 'pro' they expect/hired to "do due diligence" -- I wouldn't be the "trusted advisor" he/she should pay me to be. We're talking *property* here, not underpants. Please be prepared to recite IRC Sec 1563 and something in the 700's section about "attribution," in support of your 'prying' -- and to sound most professional. You have the 'weight of 'the law' on your side, to make these inquiries -- no matter how disingenuous you feel in doing so. And, you'd better make such inquiries, lest you expose yourself to accusations of negligence and misfeasance in future. It really could reach that unless you CYA. Too briefly, but truly, yours, TaxCPANY

They must not be too concerned about who accesses the board. A REAL tech for such a board would track users by I.P. address and you would not have been allowed if originally blocked.

And if you are smart, instead of doubling the fees, just raise them 25 %, odds are high you will lose less than 10%. Or better yet, raise them individually, more for the PITA clients. That way, you either get rid of a lot of pain, or you get paid enough to not mind the pain.

A US Navy cruiser anchored in Mississippi for a week's shore leave. The first evening, the ship's Captain received the following note from the wife of a very wealthy and influential plantation owner: "Dear Captain, Thursday will be my daughter Melinda's Debutante Ball. I would like... you to send four well-mannered, handsome, unmarried officers in their formal dress uniforms to attend the dance." "They should arrive promptly at 8:00 PM prepared for an evening of polite Southern conversation. They should be excellent dancers, as they will be the escorts of lovely refined young ladies. One last point: "No Jews please." Sending a written message by his own yeoman, the captain replied: "Madam, thank you for your invitation. In order to present the widest possible knowledge base for polite conversation, I am sending four of my best and most prized officers." "One is a lieutenant commander, and a graduate of Annapolis with an additional Masters degree from MIT in fluid technologies and ship design." "The second is a Lieutenant, one of our helicopter pilots, and a graduate of Northwestern University in Chicago , with a BS in Aeronautical Engineering. His Masters Degree and PhD. In Aeronautical and Mechanical Engineering are from Texas Tech University and he is also an astronaut candidate." "The third officer is also a lieutenant, with degrees in both computer systems and information technology from SMU and he is awaiting notification on his Doctoral Dissertation from Cal Tech." "Finally, the fourth officer, also a lieutenant commander, is our ship's surgeon, with an undergraduate degree from the University of Georgia and his medical degree from the University of North Carolina . We are very proud of him, as he is also a senior Fellow in Trauma Surgery at Bethesda ." Upon receiving this letter, Melinda's mother was quite excited and looked forward to Thursday with pleasure. Her daughter would be escorted by four handsome naval officers without peer (and the other women in her social circle would be insanely jealous). At precisely 8:00 PM on Thursday, Melinda's mother heard a polite rap at the door which she opened to find, in full dress uniform, four very handsome, smiling Black officers. Her mouth fell open, but pulling herself together, she stammered, "There must be some mistake." "No, Madam," said the first officer. "Captain Goldberg never makes mistakes."

Not to mention that you'll need less supplies, use less time making calls and have less "after the season" follow-up. This is the advice my husband keeps giving me..........it's called "working smart"!

that's when you have to step up and take charge of your practice.....you can't let yourself get walked on but in this case I was only referring to the posting that said she felt so bad because they had little money. People make choices that hurt them the least or make them feel better. I feel good when I do a return for someone that needs help and can't afford it or doesn't know they need help. Doesn't mean that I want a whole line up of freebies but as you said.... I bet you felt great telling the h/w with a spouse on active duty that the return was free [what did it cost you, a 1/2 hour]. Of course you don't want 100 of them but a few here and there can't really hurt and can make you feel really great. I gave away a bunch of freebies to people who lost their home in Sandy..... never even crossed my mind to charge for the pain in the *ss carrybacks, when they are living in trailers or motels etc. After 9/11 I must have done 25 free returns when parents came in with their murdered kids records or visa-versa. You can't fully respond to a post in 3-4 lines and MsTabby seems to take this personally [there is always more to the story than what is posted here] but if you feel so bad because someone needs the money and can't meet your fees then you do the return. Unless you will then feel so bad for not earning a fee, then you don't do the return. I just can't see doing 90% then bitching about the rest or regretting getting involved. And many times those freebies bring you in great clients. Every uniformed service person I don't charge due to a "line of duty injury" usually gets me 3-5 of his buddies as clients. My rep isn't that I do work for free, my rep is that I get it and feel for people in distress. That unwed mother or father that loses his job....eventually they get work, need a more complex return, and recommend you to everyone they speak with.

Actually, you really can't say what is 'fair fee' until you have done a return for the client, in my experience. You are looking at the finished product, but we all know that while two returns may LOOK identical, but often the work that went into them was quite different. One client may be well organized, give you his stuff early and complete, and be both polite and respectful of your advice, and pay promptly. The other is generally disorganized, late getting his data to you, you have to contact him three times to get everything you need, he ignores your advice then gripes when, as a result, things don't work out right. And once he finally gets you the last thing needed, he expects you to finish it the next day, then wants to pay you when.....[gets refund, next payday, in installments, or other]. SHOULD THEY BOTH BE CHARGED THE SAME? THE RETURNS LOOK ALMOST IDENTICAL, AFTER ALL.

That's not *quite* it. You charge what the time and effort is worth to you; where you feel fairly compensated for your trouble. If the market sees that as low, they will flock to you (as MsTabbyKat is finding) and you will then raise your prices. OTOH, if you lose clients, you will either lower your prices to entice new clients (and keep old ones), or decide to sell the business/close shop/retire/turn to hand-knotting hammocks to sale on Etsy. What a truly free market (which we have NOT had in this country or much of the rest of the world, for decades at the very least) will quickly establish is WHERE that level is, at this particular time, in this particular location. "A smelly mess in the barnyard is valuable fertilizer in the south 40." (RA Heinlein). Then one may decide (a) to purchase the good or service offered, ( b ) to offer that good or service oneself, ( c) or to refrain from either purchase or offer and do something else with one's time, effort, and money. There will always be someone who sees opportunity in moving items from the barnyard to the fields, and finds an investment (kerchief, clothespin) that makes the effort worth their while.

I figured Uncle Milty was enough of a stretch for some. And Adam Smith's work is taken out of context too much; you need to read his "Theory of Moral Sentiments" before "The Wealth of Nations" can be properly understood. (And yes, I know that "Uncle Milty" referred to Milton Berle. I was being facetious.)

John brought back another memory for me. The firm I mentioned in my post above was a small firm where we prepared in pencil and photocopied. Thank goodness I missed those carbon days! I worked at a very large firm as a co-op during college that had every return prepared by pencil and then typed out, and this was after the copiers were on the scene. I think there were about 50 people that worked there, and they had typing and math checking departments (as well as separate depts. for tax, audit, bookkeeping). This firm liked the typed look better, and believe me that firm had the fanciest Xerox copier out. It took up one whole side of an office and would collate something like either 50 or 100 sets at a time. Boy was that thing noisy!

My fees are lower, but I work out of my home, without any overhead. Everything is based on that specific client....so, someone with an A with no expenses other than state tax & charity won't pay much more than the standard deduction. Someone with a long list of every paperclip purchased pays me more. As far as this free consultation....not with me. I give an estimate based on what the client says they have....and then I add "as long as there are no surprises". I believe next year I'm going to raise fees for new clients. I get a lot of referrals because of my "low fees" (the low fees started because my clients, for the most part, didn't have a lot of money)....but these new clients can afford more.

Jack, I agree with you on that in general. Personally, I don't post anything anywhere on the internet that I wouldn't announce to the public, no matter what privacy settings are selected. But there is something to complain about when a site violates its own privacy policy that was made in settlement with the FTC. People sign up with a certain understanding and expectation, and then what is happening is something different than was agreed to, free or not. If the policy is something different or has changed, it's simple enough for a site to post a revision and let users decide.

Oh, yes, I well remember the feeling. In my early tax days, we used carbon paper to make the copies, and a 10 key was the only 'tool' we had. When I finished a return and then the client said. "Oh, by the way......." I wanted to scream.

Except for your citing myopic monetarist Milton Friedman instead of awesome all-seeing Adam Smith, Catherine, I so totally agree with you.

Catherine "gets" it. Taxed has yet to.

Those surveys are all based on totally bogus suppositions. If you look at my "normal" billing rates for 1040-A-MA it would be $205. But who has a 1040 and Sch A without a Sch B? Or a D? Who can buy a house without sufficient resources to have other accounts? What about non-schedule complications to the 1040 like educator expenses or student loans with worksheets to determine how much is allowed? Plus, it makes no mention of all the other factors that go into pricing. If, for example, that 1040-A-MA return came in early, with every bit of info needed, I would probably discount the price - possibly as much as $50. If, on the other hand, I had to send a half-dozen emails asking for the 3Q property tax, or had to hound them for the closing statements to calculate the refi points amortization, I might hit them with a "accounting time" fee on top of the $205 -- which could easily hit $100 (depending on how much of a PITA they were to deal with). Here's one for you -- picked up a family for 2012, brother to an existing client. He was charged $1075 for 2011. I would have charged $385 for the very same return. And every single client who has come to me from (insert name of favorite big box tax store) has found me to be substantially less expensive even though I think I charge very fairly if a bit skewed towards my benefit. So I believe the "averages" they report in the article to be low -- or at the very least unable to be compared to real life situations. Nonsense, all of it. If you think your prices are fair to you, you're fine. If your clients think you're too high, they'll leave. That's fine, too -- it's called feedback. A free market runs on it -- what an un-coerced buyer is willing to pay an un-coerced seller for something they need that the seller is willing to sell. Milton Friedman talked about it a lot and there are plenty of videos on YouTube of him doing so.

Thanks for the replies. Got the return done Wednesday. It was like eating pudding with a fork: not impossible but a total pain in the @$$. Glad it's done, because they were very anxious about what they were gonna owe, and I figured I might as well do it right now rather than do it sorta right now AND later. I love these people. I had to deal with the sale of about 20 assets, and the wife wanted a reduced rate for the tax return since they were only in business six months. (Uh, nooooo.) They only paid the realtor $32,000.

Robin, This happened to me for a long time. Don't use Chrome, because that website does not like it. Apparently, it became allergic to me user name and just kept going in circles. I called again and was sent up the line of techs and my user name was changed and now I have no issues as long is I use IE.They have no idea what caused my problem.