JohnH

I exceeded the number of tries because I was getting the dreaded "We Don't Know You" reply, and it locked me out for 24 hours. (But it never told me how many tries were too many). Tomorrow I'll start counting.

I saw an article yesterday that PayPal, QuickBooks, and Square are getting SBA authorization to process PPP loan applications. If they are successful and efficient, seems to me this would be a great resource for small businesses and self-employed. These companies have a vested interest in helping truly small businesses and mom & pop shops continue to operate, so they might be more responsive than big banks. Here's a link to one article: https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2020/04/13/paypal-intuit-paycheck-protection-program.html

Thanks for the correction. I definitely missed that. I should have re-read the legislation before posting.

Well, SBA finally clarified their emergency EIDL with this missive today. The rumors are correct - they're providing $1,000 per employee, even though the legislation says nothing about this limitation. ===================================================== Dear Applicant, On March 29, 2020, following the passage of the CARES Act, the SBA provided small business owners and non-profits impacted by COVID-19 with the opportunity to obtain up to a $10,000 Advance on their Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL). The Advance is available as part of the full EIDL application and will be transferred into the account you provide shortly after your application is submitted. To ensure that the greatest number of applicants can receive assistance during this challenging time, the amount of your Advance will be determined by the number of your pre-disaster (i.e., as of January 31, 2020) employees. The Advance will provide $1,000 per employee up to a maximum of $10,000. You may be eligible for another loan program, the Paycheck Protection Program, which is available through participating lenders. Below is a comparison of the two loan programs: ====================================================

Ron: I know you wanted a no-cost option, but nevertheless you might want to consider Tax941 from Time Value Software. The cost is $170, and it is a simple 941 generator. It stores all the client detail, so each quarter you just call up the current quarter form and enter the numbers. It prepares Schedule B (if required) and will do penalty calculations if the client is late with a FTD. It also updates the form if/when there are changes, which there will be in the next quarter. It's very efficient and well worth the cost, IMO. https://www.timevalue.com/tax941

Did anyone give you this link? https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f941.pdf

Since the April 15, 2020 filing date has been extended to July 15, 2020, how does this affect Form 4868 filings? Is the extended due date still Oct 15, 2020, or is it pushed out to Jan 15, 2021?

Thanks for the link,. If anybody calls me, I'll just text to email the link to them.

It has been my understanding that applying for this special $10K EIDL does not prohibit applying for the PPP. As a matter of fact, the assumption is that the employer will apply for the PPP and the $10K EIDL advance will just be deducted from the amount ultimately approved in the PPP. But I could be mistaken. My next comment is not mistaken: The 3-day window for the EIDL was either a come-on, an impossible administrative standard, or is subject to a few hidden definitions & conditions which were kept carefully hidden behind the curtain. The lack of clarity, coupled with what many applicants are now viewing as essentially another broken promise, is not creating any confidence. If it turns out that the "up to $10K" actually results in a pittance of $1K per employee, I think many very small mom & pop operators will simply regard it as a very bad joke played on them by cynical, disinterested bureaucrats and politicians. Nothing more than a blast of hot air designed to grab a few headlines. In other words, business as usual in government.

I am monitoring about a dozen applications for the "up to $10K" EIDL request. Most were submitted on or before March 31, 20120. As of today (April 8), not a single one of them has received a deposit into their checking account.

I haven't charged any of my clients for helping with the short form application. I just want to do what I can to help them stay in business. The income stream from not losing them due to business failure is worth a lot more than a few $ in the present. I consider the time to be an investment in their future and mine (or the tax preparer I hand them off to when I retire). They will have to prepare more detailed financials when the actual loan process starts and that will be the time to discuss fees. Personal experience - this evening I was speaking with my daughter and her husband on my way home from work. I mentioned the EIDL in passing during our conversation. She had to cut the conversation short because an HVAC repair guy had dropped by to pick up his check for some work he had done for them. A short while later she called to ask if i minded giving some details about the EIDL program because the HVAC guy had just told them he wasn't sure his business is going to survive this situation. She put him on the phone and I spent about 30 minutes explaining some aspects of the program and telling him exactly what he needs to do AS SOON AS HE GETS IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER. Then I ate my dinner which by now was getting a little cold. No charge for the advice, but maybe he and 5 or 6 of his employees may continue to have jobs that would have disappeared in the next few weeks. That's worth more to me than a processing fee. But if I were seeking clients, I'm betting I'd have a pretty good chance of stealing his business from his current accountant.

The ox is in the ditch for lots of people. No matter how badly they want to work, they can't. They need help from whatever the source and pretty much regardless of the future consequences. Some will make wise decisions, while others will find themselves with unexpected tax bills next tax filing season because they misunderstood or ignored the rules. And even those who plan poorly will at least owe 10% less than they would have otherwise. If I were in that situation, I'd rather have to set up a payment arrangement for a huge tax bill and deal with it for the next 5 years than leave a nicely funded 401K for my heirs in the next couple of months.

The rate of change is frustrating. However, that may be a good thing. Right now the government is trying to push immediate, temporary relief out to businesses to try and forestall some sudden business failures while they do a combination of modifying existing programs and incorporating new programs that are coming online. Even the SBA is still reading and interpreting the rules. This is a rapidly changing economic environment due to a rapidly changing and deadly threat. I don't think any of us have ever seen a government agency act this swiftly in response to any problem. Neither after 9-11 and not in 2008 were very small businesses helped to this extent. Most were left to sink or swim while the lion's share of the financial help went to "small" business having 300-499 employees. As accountants & tax preparers we like the rules all written, vetted and tied up into nice little packages. This is different. I wouldn't count on any of the existing cutoff points being set in stone. I'm assuming the rules will continue to be rewritten and changed as the situation evolves. The main thing for a business owner to do is to take advantage of what is available at the moment, get in the queue for SBA assistance going forward, stay informed, and remain flexible.

I did the same. I operate a separate business (S-Corp) which is totally unrelated to accounting and tax work. I applied for an EIDL loan for that business yesterday. After going through the process and reading some of the details, I’m suggesting to almost all my clients that they should apply.

Agree with Abby Normal. If you lend me the money to pay my employees, then forgive the loan to the extent I actually pay them, I'll take that option over a tax credit every single time.

The EIDL loans are going to be a HUGE benefit to many small business clients. I spent most of today coordinating among 4 clients as we learned about the process. Part of this program provides significant financial assistance which is initially a loan but much of it is forgivable (essentially converting it into a grant). I suspect many accountants and tax preparers may also benefit greatly from this program. Abby Normal just provided the link in the previous post. Take a look at it and you'll probably conclude that many of your clients need to be on this right now. The banks are useless at this point, but the simple 4-page application enables the client to get into the queue and possibly gets them a $10,000 grant right out of the box regardless of creditworthiness. (I know, it seems too good to be true but these are unusual times). This program undoubtedly will be abused by some, but it has the potential to stave of many small business bankruptcies and facilitate a faster recovery. I predict you'll gain the undying gratitude of some clients by simply directing them to this site.

I have some clients who are jerks. Oops, that's a typo. I have some former clients who are jerks.

Anyone who doesn't want or need the money should make plans to use it to buy food, medicine, or necessaries for someone they know who is in need. That's what my wife and I are going to do. Targeted help directly to someone it can help, and no bureaucracy dragging a big chunk of it for administration. Anyone who doesn't know someone in need can always donate the full amount to a trusted church or charity for the same purposes. I've already posted a Facebook challenge to people on my friends list urging them to do this. Not for personal recognition, but to suggest a way to achieve a tangible positive outcome with something they disagree with on principle.

Notified all my remaining clients I'm not meeting with anyone between now and at least Apr 15 (although probably well beyond that date due to the Wuhan Virus). Some I called, most I sent an email or text. They can either mail their info or put it in the slot in my office door, which is locked when I'm there but I'm not opening it for anyone. Everyone gets an extension unless I can complete the return on a "first pass" with whatever info they give me. Going to the beach Thursday for a long weekend and determined not to let taxes or clients be a source of stress. There are more important things in life.

So noted.

Judy, I find it hard to comprehend that someone would put you on "ignore".

Sorry if I'm being too persistent on this thread. If so, the moderators or somebody tell me and I'll dial it back. I just happen to think we are discussing something of major importance here. I'm attaching a VERY interesting discussion I saw on an investing Forum I participate in. (The only unusual term in the discussion is the term "Black Swan Event". In case you've never heard the term, a Black Swan Event is a sudden event which was impossible to predict but which has both immediate and long-term economic and social consequences. Knowing that definition is the key to understanding the entire conversation.) I thought the reply comparing the lessons learned from Korea and Italy is priceless wisdom. It solidifies the absolute necessity of "flattening the curve" in order to avoid the devastation Italy is experiencing. Anyone who ignores that FACT is whistling past the graveyard - maybe their own. If opening attachments bothers you, I can only say that I personally generated the pdf from a cut & paste I did myself on a Mac. Black Swan Discussion.pdf

Yep, I'm the toilet paper culprit. But to answer the question seriously, I've made a major change in my work plan today. I spent the past week and a half in India, having returned on Friday night. I had initially planned to limit personal contact for most of the coming week, simply because there are a host of viruses it's easy to pick up when traveling internationally. (India itself has an incredibly low incidence of Wuhan Virus cases so far) This afternoon I received a link from a relative who is a family practice physician. Even allowing for the fact that it might be an overreaction, the article got my attention. I also trust the judgment of the person who provided me with the article. She's a very good doctor practicing in Seattle, so she's in the middle of the storm. I'm refusing to meet with anyone this week, and probably next week as well, at least until we see more data on the pattern of expansion of the Wuhan Virus. Clients who won't mail in their info or leave it in my drop box will have to agree to an extension. (We're close to my informal extension cutoff date anyhow, so I'm just accelerating it). I can do this fairly easily because I'm transitioning into retirement so my volume of returns is decreasing by design. Also I really don't care if someone can't live with these changes - they're welcome to go somewhere else since that's a decision they're going to have to make within a couple of years anyhow. I'm also going to follow special procedures in handling the info that does come in. I know everyone can't follow this type of plan because not all of you are transitioning into retirement. But whatever you do, you might want to read the article I'm linking below and then make your decisions on next steps. I'm risking being an alarmist in posting this, but if I don't and then the worst-case scenario begins to unfold, I'd be wishing I had done this. (I've stared at this post for about 20 minutes before hitting the "submit key") https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2020/03/a-covid-19-coronavirus-update-from-concerned-physicians.html?fbclid=IwAR2T8za3H5PDKOLiNYolFlrEfDf_bNyewJPMAxgTMhKhIvjadMUpqqqLy8M

Let's start a pool on when the notification comes out. I say 8:00 pm on April 14. ======================= Trying to determine whether the notification will say "Yes, we are extending the due date" or "No extension" will be a separate pool.

I’ve instituted one new procedure in my client waiting area