JohnH

Interesting personal development over tha past few days while I was reading and responding to this thread. I had a client who came on board about 3 years ago whom I was reluctant to take on from the start, but social circumstances & church connections simply did not permit me to say "No". (Long story - we all have them). Last week, a couple of days after I sent out my client letter, this client called to let me know they were changing preparers. I happily didn't ask the reason and just told them to let me know if the new preparer has any questions about the prior 3 years. I strongly suspect the reason was that each year I had insisted on filing extensions (because their situation isn't simple and I don't want to fool with it before Apr 15.) I had emphasized in this year's client letter a blanket statement that even more, and longer, extensions might be necessaary, especially due to continuing late/revised brokerage statements and potential ACA issues. Lessons learned: 1) Adopt a strict extension policy and let the clients know up front they cannot control your time. 2) More importantly, learn to say "NO" at the outset, regardlesss of the exterrnal pressures. I have #1 perfected, but unfortunately still working on #2 even at my age & proximity to retirement.

I seldom collect when the return is completed - I just mail them an invoice. Over the years I've had a few who didn't pay, or didn't pay in full. Not many, but enough to remember. Most of the time I came to the conclusion that not collecting the balance due was a reasonable price to pay for the relief of not having to deal with them in the future. I did have one guy who was really gutsy. He owed me money, & failed to show up for a couple of years. I assumed he had gone somewhere else. But then he dropped two year's worth of tax info in my night drop, along with a note that IRS was pressuring him to file his past due returns. I put it all in a box in mailed it back to him with a bill for the past due amount, plus an estimate for the cost to do the new work, and a mention that the work would begin when he paid the entire amount. I included a note saying the estimate was probably high, but if his final bill came out lower then we could refund to him after 6 months if IRS didn't ask any questions about the returns after filing. Never heard another word from him. As I said, the old bill plus the postage to send his stuff back to him was money well spent.

Makes me think of a sign I saw at every workstation many years ago when visiting a local payroll processing service (probably back in the DOS days). "ALWAYS obtain a supervisor's permission before pressing the 'Delete' key. Otherwise, the payroll record you eliminate will be your own."

" Intangible religious un-benefit ? "

Is any reporting required, since the church is tax exempt?

But what about the financial impact on your time? After all, you continually spend hours working on this forum which could be spent with your family, reading, hiking, skiing, taking a nap, etc.

I agree 100%. Just gladly & gratefully sent mine - highly recommend that others do the same.

I'll contribute to it (and I'm talking over and above what I normally contribute to the base cost of the forum) .

Well that certainly puts a new twist on things. So maybe I am back to the original dozen or so. Maybe I'll just tell them in my letter that I haven't bothered to read up on ACA and don't intend to until well into the extension season. Some of those affectred may decide that if I'm too lazy/distracted/uninterested then perhaps they should go somewhere else. But then, maybe my position should be that if they don't have coverage and are too lazy/distracted/uninterested in their own health and finances, perhaps I don't want them as clients any more. No valid reason I can think of to volunteer to be saddled with their lack of foresight. H-m-m-m; this is beginning to look very similar to the EIC conundrum from a few years back. I found that one very easy to resolve.

That's reassuring . The 2015 practice year is a long way off, and plenty of time to get up to speed (assuming I care to do so).

OK. Well, thanks for the warning. I do trust you. I guess you mean that there is NO situation in which ACA-related issues won't be a factor. Not even when both spouses are over 65 and on Medicare. But not sure how much more emphatic I could be on the timing. There's no way I'll be looking at it until after mid-January - that isn't even an option. Looks like many more extensions will be in my future. Maybe yet another vehicle for transitioning into retirement through attrition. Right now I'm thinking of how to word my client letter. Best thing I've come up with so far is "If your situation even remotely involves ACA-related issues, expect to file an extension. If that isn't acceptable, then you need to contact someone else. Trust me on this." It's down to either that or "Why don't you all just go somewhere else this year?"

I'll admit to not having gotten any specialized ACA training, beyond online research and what's available on this and other forums. Given my schedule, I'm not likely to do so before mid-January. But here is a general question anyhow. Feel free to accuse me of being lazy if so inclined - a guilty plea is hereby entered. Would it be fair to say that clients who are covered by Medicare do not have any ACA-related issues? Secondly, is it fair to say that clients who are covered by large-company health plans do not have any ACA-related issues? If so, then I think I can send about a dozen remaining clients to HRB or someone else this yea,r and as a side-benefit, hasten my transition to full retirement through attrition.

Actually, it's a little more complicated than the Earth simply orbiting the Sun. The heliocentric 2-dimensional model just begins to tell the story. Not disputing your facts Eric, but elaborating on them. When we think 3-dimensonally, it is more awesome. I love this You Tube explanation.

I like to charge by the question. The conversation usually goes something like this: Client: I'd like to know how you charge. Me: I answer the first question for free. After that, there's a charge for each question. Client: How much do you charge for each question? Me: $100 each. What's your next question?

Joan: Glad you posted that. The law in NC just changed and I'm not interested in expanding since I'm transitioning into retirement. I'm not taking on new clients, so if I get any SSM inquiries I'll give them your contact info..

Wouldn't a better mental picture be a squirrel with a tennis racquet in hand, and having just committed a foot fault?

When I saw the odd message about "SQL Server Error" or something like that yesterday, I only had a couple of thoughts: 1) "Something got sideways in cyberspace." 2) "Eric will know what to do and when to do it." Thanks for all you do for this forum, Eric.

I explained the rationale for "no fee", and why they won't/can't/shouldn't expect the same next year. It's a graceful way to exit from an awkward situation. My business philosophy is based on the idea that the ability to make distinctions is essential.

I've had situations over the years where parents who were good clients asked me to prepare a return for a child when I absolutely didn't want to get involved. No interest in preparing the child's return but didn't want to lose the parents' business. In a few cases, I managed to convince them that the child was better off going to HRB. JH, Liberty, etc (especially if EITC was involved since I just don't do those returns). But in the cases in which I did relent, I just prepared the return at no charge. Then I'd tell them that's all I can do and the child has a year to find someone else for the next return. Most of the time people understand, and they don't like getting charity (especially if they don't need it).

Speaking only for myself here, productivity is about much more than the price of a given tool or set of tools. I've seen billing rates quoted on this forum and other tax & accounting forums at anywhere from $90/hr to $200/hr (maybe more - plug in your own numbers). So if a given $1,000 tool saves you 1/2 hour per week, it has a payback period of less than 6 months. At $200/hr, the payback period drops to less than 90 days. I think the critical issue is not how cheaply something can be done, but how efficiently it can be done. Time is money. (that statement still holds true even in you charge by the form) Incidentally, I'm typing this note on the iPad which sits on my desk while I'm doing something totally different on my PC. Most of my emails & forums are read and responded to on this device. Reading & navigating email & forums is MUCH easier with a touch screen than with a mouse. Then a bluetooth keypad speeds up the "reply" task. Plus, this particular iPad almost never leaves my desk, because I carry a separate iPad mini in my backpack. But if I want to do some reading in the "library", I just pick it up and carry it with me. Hard to do that with my PC & monitor. But having said all that, I do understand that others' mileage may vary.

One person's toy is another person's productivity tool. I use my desktop (PC), iPhone, iPad, and my MacBook pro at various times and in various contexts. Each of them adds to my business and personal productivity in its unique way, and I would miss any one of them if it were taken away from me. Maybe that's because I've discovered it is indeed possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Or maybe that's why I learned to use a hammer to drive nails into wood, a drill to make holes in the same material, and a power screwdriver to install screws in those same holes. Every tool has a unique purpose, and every piece of electronics is simply a tool to get something done.

To each his own with regard to the discount. I'm just glad my policy has always been to wait until the last minute. I was especially glad at the beginning of 2013. I was able to delay further while the 2012 problems were surfacing, and finally pulled the trigger on switching to my backup (Drake) in late January when it was painfully obvious what was developing over here. Huge problems and little prospects for resolution. That decision would have been much harder if I had already tied up money with ATX, even if the prospect of a refund loomed out there somewhere. As Judy pointed out, the savings is less than the price of a single return (or maybe a couple of really small returns). I don't like the idea of committing for the entire season on the value of a single return preparation fee.

Sorry. I just now logged on to the Forum and went to vote, then realized you posted that last night, so time has expired.

Oh lighten up - they're just horsing around.

This conversation makes me think of the old quote by (George Burns/Claude Pepper/Erma Bombeck - pick your celebrity): "At my age, I don't even buy green bananas."