JohnH

Are you counting the time involved explaining the differences to the client when they get a notice adjusting the figures your software provided?

Joel: I found that the fillable forms are not so bad. I created an Excel spreadsheet to do all the calculations for me and it is formatted in such a way that the entries line up closely with the fillable form. I populate the fillable form with recurring data and save it as a template. Then just load the template and enter the info from the spreadsheet. I only prepare quarterly reports for a small number of clients, so this works pretty well.

I regard calculting P&I as a waste of time. The only penalty I let any program clculate is the Estimated Tax Penalty. I tell the cleint approximately what the p&I will be and advise them to wait for the notice.

Like Michael, I base that decision partly on how long it takes. For any error I may have made, there's no charge regardless of how long it may take. For something not of my doing but which takes very little time (maybe a letter or phone call), usually no charge because it's a part of good client service. I don't nickel and dime my clients. But for something involved and which I should have been told about (1099-B, etc), I charge for the time spent getting it sorted out. For non-clients who need help with something like this, it's full charge for every minute spent (unless there's an extenuating circumstance).

I had one of those a couple of years back. CLient had several 1099-R forms from various places. He kept telling me the taxable amount on a 1099-R from one fund was wrong, asking me to call them, etc. I did finally speak with the agent, who waffled and said it "might" be wrong and he would look into it. I think he just didn't want to tick off his customer. Extension time rolled around and there was no new 1099-R forthcoming, so I told him the return had to go in "as is". I explained that I had to use the info he gave me and we can't arbitrarily change it. Last year he gave me his info and there was no 1099-R from that particular fund. When I asked about it, he said he didn't take a distribution from this fund in that year. So I made a note of his response and moved on. I suspect we will be revisting this in a couple of years when the CP notice shows up.

I always like my answer when they ask me to explain how the AMT affects them and why they have to pay it. I just tell them it's because Congress thinks they make too much money. Hopefully they'll remember that on their next trip to the voting booth. (Did I just cross a line here?)

Rita: Somehow I knew that was coming. So in contrast to KC's reply, we aren't really talking about the generic "guy". As Her Majesty once replied, "We are not amused."

We could take it to the level of Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtin on SNL, with their parody of James Kilpatrick & Shana Alexander's "Point / Counter-Point"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs

Sounds like my favorite scene from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqhm36sjVE

OK Jack, I'm raising a point of order here. You have already made a motion and even voted on it out of order. Sorry, but you can't vote again (and you can't second your own motion in an effort to get it to the floor either).

Is it always a guy?

Good point KC. If I fired clients who forget what I told them last year, I'd be down in the minus digits. I wouldn't even be able to prepare my own return, because I sometimes forget what I looked up last year on some issue and I find myself looking it up again.

Only kidding. My small practice is exactly like yours in that all the complicated stuff gets put on extension. And I did switch from ATX to Drake in late January.

Michael: Are you sure about that? I'm told it is virtually impossible to change software in mid-season. The learning curve is much too steep and it is well beyond my ability to fathom all the complexities...

Yes Jack. Of course you are correct and I don't have a clue. What worked for me when I was the controller for a manufacturing company with exactly the same issues obviously has no parallel in a tax preparation factory. Please disregard everything I just said. (And be thankful you don't work for me)

quote name="SaraEA" post="90976" timestamp="1381198093"] "Large practices with a high volume of returns should have an alternate vendor's software actually running on some computers in their office, just so they don't get blindsided by something like what happened with ATX this year." JohnH, is this really practical? Alternate software isn't free. And would returns already have to be converted to the new software so they're ready to go? That's a major hassle. And do you have to train staff ahead of time to use the alternate just in case? The whole thing sounds like a major expense to me, too much for even a large practice to absorb....

It's wasted breath - you may as well be talking to the wall. You're fooling yourself if you think it will make any difference - they know exactly what they are doing and why. Most of the time they tolerate listening because they know it makes you feel good to hear yourself saying it. And maybe you'll stick around a little longer in hopes that you had an impact. That's they way the game is played (or that's the way the customer is played) in the aftermath of most buyouts.

I'll add one other comment. I was away from the office for the past two weeks, and since I still consider myself a Drake novice, I was curious about how quickly I would fall back into the routine with the software once I returned. No need to worry though - Drake is just as logical and intuitive as ATX, once you break the dependence upon the sacred "direct entry" mentality. As I've said before, direct form entry is vastly overrated.

For the most part I've stopped commenting on ATX vs Drake, because I see how passionate some on this forum are with respect to ATX. Some of you are going to stick with ATX no matter what the cost and no matter what the risk. From a business standpoint that continues to puzzle me. I'm also astounded at the number of practices who are totally reliant upon one vendor and don't have an alternate vendor already identified. Large practices with a high volume of returns should have an alternate vendor's software actually running on some computers in their office, just so they don't get blindsided by something like what happened with ATX this year. Yet I continue to see this blind loyalty to ATX and little indication that any preventive steps are being taken. It's October folks, and the comments lead me to believe that most are just sitting with their fingers crossed, hoping all the promises will be fulfilled. But I will chime in here since you've hit upon the biggest difference between these two vendors. There's nothing in this price range to compete with Drake on speed. It isn't fancy and some of the screens aren't as pretty, but it's designed for speed. Input is fast, return management is fast, backups are fast, and updates are lighting fast. There are times when I miss the direct input on the form a little, but that becomes less and less of a problem once you get accustomed to Drake. Their Macros also aid you in designing special input keys - again making return preparation FAST. Since we sell our expertise measured in time in this business, faster speed translates into more dollars in the bank. Hard to argue with that logic. I knew within a few days of switching over that Drake was going to be my primary software going forward, not matter what happens with ATX. I now regard ATX at best as a candidate for my backup vendor, provided they really get their act together. But I'm still very much of a skeptic in that department as well. I think you're going to have to settle for lots of compromises in the future, and one of those is likely to be speed. If that's the case, then you're going to be committing to earning less over a given period of time. Some ATX diehards are willing to accept that trade-off, but I'm not. I actually wish I had switched to Drake years before I did, just so I'd be more experienced in using it today.

Congratulations Jack. Once it sinks in, your life will be changed in numerous ways. Our kids cause us to think "next generation", but grandkids cause us to begin thinking several generations out..

I still have this uneasy feeling that this whole project is about putting lipstick on a pig. But I'll be happy to find out my instincts are wrong, it that happens to be the case.

A question came up about which came first - man drinking beer or man drinking milk. Simple logic finally solved the mystery. Back before records were being kept, it is imagined that two Neandertals were coming home from the hunt. They had already finished painting the story of the hunt on the cave wall and were looking for something to do. One of them said "See that herd of animals over there? I'm going to sneak up on one of them and pull one of those long things hanging down from that sac to see what comes out of it." The other one replied - "If you'll do it, then by golly I'll drink whatever comes out". The answer is simple logic. This conversation would never have taken place if someoby hadn't been driking beer in the first place.

Happy Birthday. I won't promise not to attack you, but it won't be personal if I do.

I think you answered your own question. The instructions for the 1099-C as pretty clear insofar as who is supposed to file it. Personally, I'd never file a 1099-C for a non-paying client even if that were an option available to me, but I realize others have different views on this matter. Who Must File File Form 1099-C if you are: 1. A financial institution described in section 581 or 591(a) (such as a domestic bank, trust company, building and loan or savings and loan association). 2. A credit union. 3. Any of the following, its successor, or subunit of one of the following: a. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, b. Resolution Trust Corporation, c. National Credit Union Administration, d. Any other federal executive agency, including government corporations, e. Any military department, f. U.S. Postal Service, or g. Postal Rate Commission. 4. A corporation that is a subsidiary of a financial institution or credit union, but only if, because of your affiliation, you are subject to supervision and examination by a federal or state regulatory agency. 5. A Federal Government agency including: a. A department, b. An agency, c. A court or court administrative office, or d. An instrumentality in the judicial or legislative branch of the government. 6. Any organization whose significant trade or business is the lending of money, such as a finance company or credit card company (whether or not affiliated with a financial institution). The lending of money is a significant trade or business if money is lent on a regular and continuing basis.

Maybe, maybe not. It's more accurate than much of the discussion we've had on this forum from both side about the issue. Insofar as the videos are concerned, they're painting with a pretty broad brush. One person's pertinent info is another's talking point (or choke point). But the fact is, somebody does have to pay for it. We won't turn people way from emergency rooms even if they can't pay. So somebody is already paying for it.